look here-36th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and here №453-http://www.sporuss.mosaics-mandjos.ru/deutsch-8.htm
original dog tag-Личный жетон дивизии СС "Дирлевангер", Германия
Thanx. I allready knew those links.
I dont like it my friend. If that other one is indeed an original then they one posted here has many major differences. There are also some strange horizontal wear marks where it looks as though someone has intentionally attempted to make the lattering hard to read by rubbing it or something. Also I am pretty sure most of the Dirlewanger boys were killed outright and never made it into a POW camp. This is my opinion only and verbalizing what is in my head. I am not an "expert" in ID Tags.
Interestingly, these pop up from time to time, always with some story or other about hoard discoveries, with or without murdered remains and a couple of times it's in Germany proper (Halbe and Celle are two locales); unfortunately it's only ever hearsay and the form of these discs is so weird, it seems impossible to properly authenticate them. This one is really weirder still since it's a real aluminum Erkennungsmarke whereas every other example I've ever seen is a very crude zinc disc with badly-placed holes and instead of the usual three cut Trennschlitzen there are only two long impressed lines. The main single stamp is always the same though- that crude 'SS DIRLEWANGER' that wobbles and overall looks as though it was made by an amateur. I just found another one- Erkennungsmarke DIRLEWANGER bei eBay.de: 1918-1945 (endet 07.02.11 15:19:47 MEZ) on yet another different disc.
I would say the pitting on the ebaY example seems to suggest it's real- I don't know if that level of corrosion can be faked terribly easily; and since condition is value, I find it harder to see a faker costing himself money by damaging a disc that much just to make it seem more real when these have been around for so long. If it is real, that would suggest any others with the identical stamp are as well- or someone actually has the stamp and is still using it. OR that someone started faking these way back. It's weird that all the Stammrollennummer numbers are different though- granted they're quite spread out, but it means the unit retained their main stamp but somehow lost their numbers at least twice.
The scratches on the reverse of this one just appear to be from cleaning- they don't concern me so much as the discolouration at the site of the stamps; that usually indicates an old blank more recently stamped such that the impact area is deformed and the patina knocked off by the impact force. Although it could also be from the seemingly aggressive cleaning- but then I'd expect more such visible aluminum elsewhere as well.
Two examples are shown on another forum, both of the crude form, and both with yet more different number styles- I don't know, it's weird. I suppose an explanation could be that so late in the war anything to hand was used, but you don't see that on regular Heer, Luftwaffe, Waffen-SS discs. The main stamp is consistent among all the examples seen but so far I've never seen any conclusive proof any are real. And they're not uncommon- one statement was that 100 were found 15 or 20 years ago and clearly if I can find 3 examples with just a quick search, and I know I've seen a couple of others in the past, they're not rare. Although some may say they feel they're good, I just can't say either way. Too many iffy things for me- I wouldn't buy one. But if you're happy with it kindz, that's the main thing
Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...
It's indeed a weird one.
I've seen several Dirlewanger fakes but those are different than this one.
I don't know what to think about it ...
Last edited by kindzjal; 05-14-2011 at 02:55 PM.