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SS Lettisch Erkennungsmarke

Article about: What a revealing discussion! Wish I had bought it now Nick

  1. #1

    Default SS Lettisch Erkennungsmarke

    Does this disc check out ok please?

    The runes look weakly stamped

    Many thanks in anticipation

    Nick
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    "In all my years as a soldier, I have never seen men fight so hard." - SS Obergruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich - Arnhem

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: SS Lettisch Erkennungsmarke

    Well if this is supposed to the the 19. Lettische SS-Freiwilligen-Division, there's an obvious problem: its 3 Grenadier-Regimenter were numbered 42, 43 and 44- so this disc purporting to be from Infanterie-Regiment 4 doesn't make any sense. There was an SS-Infanterie-Regiment 4 RFSS, but it was very different. Now there also was an SS-Freiwilligen-Regiment 4 in the Lett. SS-Freiwilligen-Legion, but that's not the same thing as what the disc says and that unit became SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier-Regiment 42 when the Legion became a Division. So none of the text seems to go together properly.

    Also the marking itself has a problem- SS units nearly always have 'SS' at the beginning: so it would rightly be 'III./SS-J.R. 4'; it just being 'III./ J.R. 4', which was a Heer unit, is very wrong.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  4. #3

    Default Re: SS Lettisch Erkennungsmarke

    Many thanks Matt! I knew you would come up with a definitive answer

    You are the man

    Nick
    "In all my years as a soldier, I have never seen men fight so hard." - SS Obergruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich - Arnhem

  5. #4

    Default Re: SS Lettisch Erkennungsmarke

    Hello everybody,
    This is funny, because some days ago, there was one similar sold on an eastern european auction site.
    It was from different company, but looked very like the one above.
    The seller was saying that he dug it himself, and had another one latvian too, that was struck with completely different letters.
    I am not the buyer but I kept the picture for information purposes. I hope that its new owner, that I don't know, will not hold a grudge against me if I post it here (if he comes across this page).

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  6. #5

    Default Re: SS Lettisch Erkennungsmarke

    Now this is interesting! What do you think to this revelation Matt ?


    Thank you Gazal for the post

    Nick
    "In all my years as a soldier, I have never seen men fight so hard." - SS Obergruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich - Arnhem

  7. #6

    Default Re: SS Lettisch Erkennungsmarke

    Hi Nick & Matt , I am not trying to "muscle in" on you guys as you all know a damn site more than I ever will , but I would personaly say that these both look like "sell it to the punters" items. I do not like for ONE BIT that the SS side of things is "tough to see"??/ Surely it should be the opposite? But as I say "I do not know!! Sorry for my un-informative ramble!! Leon.
    "Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." Ernest Hemingway

  8. #7
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    Default Re: SS Lettisch Erkennungsmarke

    Matt is correct of course on the unit not existing. I think that for the Latvian SS for some reason all the tags I have seen and the 3 I own it is always displayed as "Lett SS Frw Rgt" or "Lett SS Freiw Diw" so unfortunately that portion of the text may be a copy from a good tag or photo. * Correction I see this tag has "DIV" I did not see that at first, it is not like my good tag.

  9. #8
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    Default Re: SS Lettisch Erkennungsmarke

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    Here is another bad one that has the exact same text except the II, vs III abt., I have posted it before and we determined it was bad.

  10. #9

    Default Re: SS Lettisch Erkennungsmarke

    And another one that I kept the picture…

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  11. #10
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    Default Re: SS Lettisch Erkennungsmarke

    Very well done guys- one very good way to support an evaluation of 'fake' is to find or show one or more other examples with different fonts and the same text, or the same font on alternate units. Particularly, since as I say all the time, virtually every Kompanie in the German military seems to have had its own unique stamp set, so if two different units are the same, it's a huge red flag; the II. Bataillon and the III. Bataillon would very likely be expected to have different stamps but a faker would likely have only one and use it for everything. And finding the same text in a totally different font is another huge red flag- that immediately suggests the text is indeed simply being copied by a faker from, often, other fakes.

    Now that I see them here, I know that second type with the large capitals- I've seen that particular one before, and some of the letters are very, very close (if not identical) to a lesser-known fake type; note how nearly all the shared letters, even among the smaller sized ones, are nearly the same- even the rather characteristic shape of the 'J'. There are a couple that aren't the same among all three, like the 'R' of the 'Prinz Eugen', but those of the Nederland and Lettisch do appear the same. They're all too close to believe the Lettisch just happens to be real but exceedingly similar to a few known fakes.

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    Last edited by Matt L; 07-28-2013 at 04:53 PM.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

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