What do you think about this one? Is it worth $235?
SS-Panzerdivision Totenkopfverbande
What do you think about this one? Is it worth $235?
Take a look here, and look carefully at your Erkennungsmarke, and tell us what you find.
The SS Panzer Division (German: SS-Panzerdivision, short: SS-PzDiv) was an SS formation during World War II. The table below shows the organisation structure that an "SS Panzer division", aspired to contain.[1]
Designation (lang-en: ...)[2] Designation (lang-de: ...)[3]
staff of the division Divisionsstab
commander of the division
general staff officer
cartographical unit
communications unit
division escort
military police
Divisionskommandeur (DivKdr)
Generalstabsoffizier
Kartorgaphieeinheit
Fernmeldeeinheit
Divisionsbegleitschutz
Militaerpolizei
quartermaster Quartiermeister (Qu)
weapon platoon
mechanical
captain Dr physician
captain Dr dentist
Waffenzug
Mechaniker
Stabsatzt
Stabszahnarzt
Panzer regiment Panzerregiment (PzRgt)
I battalion
4 companies (1–4)
workshop company
I. Abteilung
4 Kompanien (1–4)
Werkstattkompany
II battalion
5 companies (5–9)
workshop platoon
II. Abteilung
5 Kompanien (5–9)
Werkstattzug
antitank battalion Panzerjaegerabteilung (PzJgAbt)
3 companies of assault guns (1–3) 3 Kompanien von Sturmgeschützen (1–3)
SS Panzergrenadierregiment.svg Panzer grenadier regiment Panzergrenadierregiment (PzGrenRgt)
I battalion 4 companies (1–4) I. Bataillon 4 Kompanien (1–4)
II battalion 4 companies (5–8) II. Bataillon 4 Kompanien (5–8)
III battalion
4 companies (9–12)
heavy infantry gun company (13)
anti-aircraft company (14)
reconnaissance company (15)
engineer company (16)
III. Bataillon
4 Kompanien (9–12)
schwere Infanteriegeschützkompanie (13)
Flakkompanie (14)
Aufklaerungskompanie (15)
Pionierkompanie (16)
Panzer grenadier regiment (as above) Panzergrenadierregiment (wie oben)
Panzer reconnaissance battalion Panzeraufklärungsabteilung (PzAufklAbt)
2 Panzer scout companies
2 Panzer reconnaissance companies
1 heavy company
2 Panzerspähkompanien
2 Panzeraufklärungskompanien
1 schwere Kompanie
Panzer artillery regiment Panzerartillerieregiment (PzArtRgt)
I battalion
3 batteries
I. Abteilung
3 Batterien
II battalion
3 batteries
II. Abteilung
3 Baterrien
III battalion
4 batteries
III. Abteilung
4 Baterrien
launcher battalion Werferabteilung
4 batteries (1–4)
4 Batterien (1–4)
anti-aircraft battalion Flakabteilung (FlakAbt)
5 batteries (1–5)
5 Batterien (1–5)
Panzer engineer battalion Panzerpionierabteilung (PzPiAbt)
1 (armoured) company (on IFV)
3 engineer companies
bridge convoy B
1 (gepanzerte) Kompanie (auf SPw)
3 Pionierkompanieen
Brückenkolonne B
Panzer communications battalion Panzernachrichtenabteilung
1 communications company
1 Radio company
1 Fernmeldekompanie
1 Funkkompanie
division`s supply troops Divisions-Nachschubtruppe
6 vehicle companies
1 supply company
6 Kraftfahrkompanieen
1 Nachschubkompanie
Panzer maintenance battalion Panzer-Instandsetzungsabteilung
3 workshop companies
1 (weapon) workshop company
1 spare and repair part company
3 Werkstattkompanieen
1 (Waffen-)Werkstattkompanie
1 Ersatzteilkompanie
provisioning battalion Wirtschaftsbataillon
bakery company
butcher company
division’s food service office
military post office
Baeckerkompanie
Schlaechterkompanie
Divisions-Verpflegungsamt
Feldpostamt
medical battalion Sanitaetsabteilung
2 medical companies
1 ambulance company
1 medical supply company
2 Sanitaetskompanieen
1 Krankenkraftwagekompanie
1 Versorgungskompanie
replacement battalion Feldersatzbataillon
The structure and organisation of the 12th SS Panzer Division "Hitlerjugend" is equivalent to the table above and served as a standard for all other "SS Panzer Divisions" during World War II. The average complement was approximately 19,000. However, not two SS Divisions out of 38 contained that manpower number. In the second half of the war in Europe, in particular close to the end of war, some divisions achieved only the complement of regiment sized units.
or, at the risk of wounding one's affect, how many regiments go into a Waffen SS division?
Is the answer eight (8)?
My image here is an army infantry division, and surely a Waffen SS armored division at the height of its powers was stronger in its T O & E.
There is someone here who knows better than I.
Happy collecting.
And, to such happy collecting belongs a familiarity with military organization in pretty acute detail.
Lexikon der Wehrmacht
Also a fine resource.
My point: did Eicke's unit have 8 regiments in it? It would have been a corps, in that case, if I am not mistaken.
The answer to my question is in this book, for instance.
Look at pp. 107-123.
And the answer is pretty clear, whereby your Erkennungsmarke is bogus.
Klietmann has the T O & E in 1939 through 1944, and though the order of battle of this unit grew, it surely had no eight regiments.
I am happy to be corrected, but I have spent more than thirty five years with German military organization in the past and present,
so I am not getting this point from some dorky website, only.
You also asked elsewhere in an area where I aspire to know something how a beginner can learn. One point here, one didactic point, is exactly military organization.
This is an easy thing to learn versus many other aspects of regalia, i.e. how a cap was really made versus a fake and so forth, and you have access to
many resources to determine whether the faker got the organization of the unit right. This is a crucial skill and one I have worked on for decades in every conceivable
aspect.
Good luck.
Moreover, there is a strong distinction here between the SS Totenkopfverbaende from, say, 1936 until 1939/40 and the later Totenkopf Division.
All of this is well interpreted in the Sydnor book as well as in the recent excellent works in German on the Waffen SS and especially the Totenkopf unit.
Thank you for all of the information. This gives me a lot to study. I will do so and hopefully will not need to ask similar questions moving forward. I'm learning this stuff as fast as humanly possible but there is a lot to learn. I really appreciate you spending the time to help me learn!
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