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SS Totenkopf Dog Tag.

Article about: Howdy. I've had this tag a long, long time. What can you tell me about this specific Tag? All opinions will be highly appreciated. I tried to get the best pics possible. hope they will help

  1. #1

    Default SS Totenkopf Dog Tag. REAL or Fake?

    Howdy. I've had this tag a long, long time. What can you tell me about this specific Tag? All opinions will be highly appreciated. I tried to get the best pics possible. hope they will help further identify this tag. thank you and all opinions would be grand. Thanks a million!

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    Well I hope this all works out (attachment wise). Thanks for your input.
    Last edited by octavian; 08-11-2012 at 02:55 PM.

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  3. #2

    Default Re: SS Totenkopf Dog Tag. REAL or Fake?

    I'll be back later this weekend if you all need more photos.

  4. #3
    ?

    Default Re: SS Totenkopf Dog Tag.

    Salve Octavian-

    I'm sorry to say this one's a pretty bad fake- fake lettering (some letters engraved or refined with a rotary tool?) and even the 'wear' on the neck cord holes was done with a file it looks like. Real wear is smooth, but there are sharp edges on this disc showing it's not real. Interestingly another fellow showed me one that was just like this one that he bought 15 years ago, marked 'SS-Artillierie-Regiment 3' - it has the same weird lettering and that detail makes it 100% certain this one's bad; no two discs from different units would ever have the exact same lettering on them, and in particular because the one I saw yesterday is bad, it means any others made with the same stamps are too.
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  5. #4

    Default Re: SS Totenkopf Dog Tag.

    Well the price was right, free. so that's how it goes. i fumbled upon this Awesome Site, and thought i would post this to see what was up with it. Thanks again and i'm not sore about it at all. Perhaps this Fake can be used as another reference to help others? Cheers dude!

    - - Updated - -

    Oh yeah, do you have a picture of the other tag you were describing? That would be nice to see.

  6. #5

    Default Re: SS Totenkopf Dog Tag.

    Upon magnification using a 40x magnification glass, I closely examined all lettering and the holes. I see no file marks, nor "scratching" from a rotary tool. I used to be a machinist. When using such tools as a pillar file or rotary tool, heaving in the area surrounding the treated around should appear. As with cross-hatch marks. it would have a clearly defined rise in it, but not hardly noticeable to the naked eye. Even buffing with the softest of materials would show up under this type of magnification. The holes are smooth, oddly enough (no mechanical marks). The grain appears linear and uniform. Even the use of Emory Cloth would show up... Hmm I'm stumped at to the method of creation here. I just cant see any type of buffing or alterations to the letters.

    You made some very good observations. Thanks! I thought that magnification would show obvious alterations. I just don't see anything like this. I'm stumped.

  7. #6
    ?

    Default Re: SS Totenkopf Dog Tag.

    Yup, I was just waiting to get permission to use bits of the other image- from new member Yellow3- here is is and you can see the shared letters and Sigrunen are identical:

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    Here I've cropped the shared bits and superimposed them on your disc octavian- the 'SS', the 't' and the 'Rgt':

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    It is strange that you see no evidence of milling- that's the simplest explanation for the rounded ends; I've never seen a stamp made that way myself. I note distortions on the back consistent with stamping so clearly at least some letters were, but the Sigrunen, 't', etc. appear so very different and consistent with a rotary pantograph type arrangement- it's odd. Well as I say the major clear killer is the identical lettering- even if the Artillerie one weren't clearly fake, the two together would be 99% sure to be. To have even one real and one fake would require either someone going to the likely high cost of replicating stamps exactly, or the one-in-a-million chance that someone found the exact same set and used it.

    Glad yours was free- nothing worse that paying good money for something and having had it for a long time only to find out it's bad...
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  8. #7

    Default Re: SS Totenkopf Dog Tag.

    I've had this since i was a kid, at least 30 Years now, so i dont think a rotary pantograph laser would have been around? That was great how you cropped the other image. The R is exact as you said. Especially on the downward leg of that "R". I'm glad you got permission to show the other Tag. This person who did this must have been rather crafty! I have never looked at markings from a modern rotary pantograph. I have a buddy who just may be able to tell me the signature of such machines. I'm super curious now to track down the method. The previous tag you cropped, he had that for 15 years? I've had mine for 30. That's a long time to use the same punch. Wow! this is getting interesting. Cuddos, Dude! You're dang sharp.

  9. #8
    ?

    Default Re: SS Totenkopf Dog Tag.

    No, not a laser or modern anything- just a pantograph with a rotary cutter head; like the Kriegsmarine used (although theirs was very shallow and did leave marks showing it was a power tool that made the markings). Depending on how fast one traces the pattern letters, there's more or less of the cutter's 'signature' left; going quite slowly there might even be none.

    I knew the've been faking discs for a long time- it's even been suggested it wasn't long after the war ended since Allied soldiers were so keen on souvenirs; given that there were literally millions of discs around, I find it a little tough to believe though. It's quite possible the Artillerie disc was made at the same time as your TJR, and the guy who asked me about it was just the owner as of 15 years ago- presumably then too the former owner had no idea it was bad and sold it on as real. It's just such an odd piece with the mix of letter types...
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

  10. #9

    Default Re: SS Totenkopf Dog Tag.

    Hell yeah dude! That makes absolute sense now. You know your stuff and I wont forget your help. Everything you have pointed out fits the mold. Right on! If for any reason you need to reference this fake, feel free dude. Anything to help others. I dont want to see anybody get burned on the numerous fakes milling about. Nothing lost on my end, since it was given to me a long time ago.

  11. #10
    ?

    Default Re: SS Totenkopf Dog Tag.

    Thanks, it will be useful to be able to show this one with the other- a lone fake isn't nearly as much help as two from very different locations (the other one's in the UK). Now this qualifies as a 'type' since clearly it's not a one off. We can recognize other fakes if even one of the letters or numbers matches...
    Ohhhhh- pillage then burn...

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