Please Take A Look At This gymmnasterka

[RKKA pilot]

Hello, please take a look at this gymmnasterka. I might wish to buy it, if it is a ww2 period. Is there any way to tell if this is a ww2 wartime period gymmnasterka. According to the way I understand what I read in Phillippe Rio's book, concerning this subject, a Sarzant would not have pockets until after the war. So this gymmnasterka, because of its Sarzant rank would be post war. Did I understand this correctly? Any other opinions? Thanks.

[Wesley's Dad]

I do not think you are understanding that correctly. I believe the statement in the book should be understood to say that after 1945 there seems to be no (or very little) issuance of the version without pockets. Therefore, postwar, all ranks had pockets. The 2nd model (pockets) Model 1943 was issued to enlisted ranks during the war.

Regarding what the blouse you posted is exactly... It is made of U.S. Lend-Lease supplied wool which gives it good odds to be wartime. However, you must understand that this is not absolute. There is no way to tell with 100% certainty if it was wartime made or shortly after. If the buttons are the original factory sewings and are all undated on the back, you can probably say it is pre-1948. Other than that, this is just an uncertainty that the Red Army collector must get comfortable with.

In this particular case, it would be good enough for me. I have a couple in this material and with this button size. Keep in mind that it is highly likely that the shoulderboards have been added recently

[RKKA pilot]

Thank you for your reply W's Dad. I understand. I have another question for anyone? Did officers sometime wear the enlisted quality gymmnasterka (or did they sometimes wear a gymmnasterka without the sleave piping?) And, did enlisted sometime wear an officer quality gymmnasterka (with of course the enlisted shoulder rank)?

[Adrian Stevenson]

The first scenario is perfectly feasible and can be seen in period photos, the second is highly unlikely.

Cheers, Ade.

[RKKA pilot]

Ok, I understand: The early model 1943 enlisted gymmnasterkas, some did not have pockets, some did have pockets. "At the beginning of 1945, tunics with breast pockets were issued to all personnel regardless of rank" (according to period photos). Thanks for your replies. Here is a photo of an enlisted wearing a gymmnasterka without pockets.

[RichieC]

Cuff piping is a one in five hundred thing...

[bourguignotte]

Hello,

I may had that soldier's gym had elbow reinforcement which wasn't the case for officers

Bruno

[MAP]

Ok, I understand: The early model 1943 enlisted gymmnasterkas, some did not have pockets, some did have pockets. "At the beginning of 1945, tunics with breast pockets were issued to all personnel regardless of rank" (according to period photos). Officers did not wear enlisted quality gymmnasterkas and enlisted did not wear the officer quality gymnasterkas. And officers would not wear a gymmnasterka without the sleeve cuff piping. Thanks for your replies. Here is a photo of an enlisted wearing a gymmnasterka without pockets.

I know nothing about these garments, but I think Ade was saying that it WAS feasible that Officers wore enlisted quality Gymmnasterkas as seen in period photo's.

Regards,

Michael

[RKKA pilot]

Thanks Map, I understand you, you are right. I have edited out the inaccurate part of my above post, to make it accurate. Thanks everyone, I'm learning.

[MAP]

No problem. Just saw it and thought I would point it out. We are always learning.