White Linnen M-43 Tunic Colonel of Transport Flight

[RichieC]

Richie VOSO straps are black stripes on the gold field, but with greenish blue backing

Dim,

This subject has had some heavy discussion:

Ïåòëèöû - ÂÎÑÎ èëè ãðàæäàíñêèå? - Ôîðóì âîåííûõ êîëëåêöèîíåðîâ - "WW2"

To this day, I still do not believe 100% as I have a set of shoulder-boards; Piped in green with black stripes, and have seen others. These are the type that the "experts" say are fantasy pieces...

However, by an order in 1951r, they were indeed piped in powder-blue color.

More on this later when I am able to find more previously posted data.

[RichieC]

This is the thread that started it all about VOSO shoulder-boards:

Ôóôëîãîíû èç Ëåéáøòàíäàðòà - Êëóá êîëëåêöèîíåðîâ Áëîêãàóç

If you can not see images, PM me and I will tell how...

[Dimas]

Russian forums says, that 5 pointed straps with black piping is impossible to be with this insignia, for sure. But I'am also never saw the 5 pointed green piped straps, only 6 pointed. Anyway the Skovronski was in the service of Naval Aviation, and this shoulderstraps is wrong. 255 aviadivision of airforces of Dunai river fleet

[RichieC]

Russian forums says, that 5 pointed straps with black piping is impossible to be with this insignia, for sure. But I'am also never saw the 5 pointed green piped straps, only 6 pointed. Anyway the Skovronski was in the service of Naval Aviation, and this shoulderstraps is wrong. 255 aviadivision of airforces of Dunai river fleet
[/IMG]

I still think that the tunic in the first post (white Kitel) is not the tunic that belongs with these documents. Why? Because: It is an Army Kitel tunic - White naval tunics had open (no flap) patch pockets. The MTC/Tech shoulder-boards and naval buttons were added later....

I own an example of a White Kitel for officer of Naval Avaition and will show it in my next post...

In any case, we can discuss the Railway Commandant subject via email or in a new thread. I have some translation problems pertaining to the Russian forums that I would like to clarify - they have been eating away at me for a few years now...

[RichieC]

I own an example of a White Kitel for officer of Naval Avaition and will show it in my next post...

Such:

Please note the pocket style that was used only for Navy, and at times, early Aeroflot.

[RichieC]

Gentlemen,

I have come up with some seemingly hair-brained assumptions in the past...

This one has come to me in the last few minutes on a whim.

As a collector and student of Soviet history, I have discovered that the RKKA/Red Army during (and some following years past) the times of the Great Patriotic War, was the last military force to adhere even 80% to written (uniform) regulations - As there was so much disorder among the command & the supply lines and a lack of EVERYTHING one could think of, at most if not ALL times...

As there is such a gaping hole in conclusive records and TRUTHFUL history of such an army - let alone in ENGLISH language - Who is to say that the owner of these documents and tunic was not indeed ORIGINALLY an ARMY Transport officer (IMO, these shoulder-boards are 100% original and the MTC emblems are also correct for the black piped/striped combination) that was transferred to the Navy due to circumstances that are UNKNOWN (see above)?

So, like many at the time, he may have IMPROVISED his uniform - simply by adding Navy buttons to his tunic so he would at least appear to be partially "correct" among his new peers - until he was supplied with, or purchased (upon availability) the proper uniform for his new position?

If we knew the career history of this man, perhaps it would shed some light on my hypothesis?

I am wondering if this is possible? If we had at least some information about any numbered awards pertaining to this man, then perhaps that would be.

So, kindly disregard what I have written earlier about this tunic - pertaining not belonging to the man himself (it is still incorrect in any case - Technically, by regulations that is)...

[RichieC]

For the sake of irony; Check this one out:

[RichieC]

For the sake of irony; Check this one out:

A Lieutenant wearing a white summer NAVAL TYPE Kitel with appropriate buttons adorned; naturally...

However, note the shoulder-boards!

They are five sided; Type for Technical Armies - NOT Navy- before 1946/47r according to regulations.

So, perhaps this man's uniform is a fake?

[Komandir RKKA]

I see following suspicious points here:
- photo on document shows the man in dark tunic with coloured rim - couldn't be navy uniform;
- the tunic itself isn't navy tunic;
- buttons on tunic and shoulder boards are navy;
- shoulder boards have railway troops signs no related to navy;
- shoulder boards were double ragged (probably was sewn from postwar 4 angle shoulder boards and then stars places were changed)
I think no one colonel will wear double ragged shoulder boards.
All these quite enough for me to consider this tunic combined by seller who knows not much about theme.

[BOB COLEMAN]

I see following suspicious points here:
- photo on document shows the man in dark tunic with coloured rim - couldn't be navy uniform;
- the tunic itself isn't navy tunic;
- buttons on tunic and shoulder boards are navy;
- shoulder boards have railway troops signs no related to navy;
- shoulder boards were double ragged (probably was sewn from postwar 4 angle shoulder boards and then stars places were changed)
I think no one colonel will wear double ragged shoulder boards.
All these quite enough for me to consider this tunic combined by seller who knows not much about theme.

I have seen this tunic in hand. I certainly would not consider the shoulder boards to be "ragged." Like Bob, I have been a serious WW2 collector for over 45 years. I also profess to having little to no experience in the field of WW2 era Soviet uniforms. That does not mean we do not wish to learn. I find the last sentence of the quoted post insulting, which is not the reason we are all here. Like Bob, I want to learn more and not be criticized for seeking knowledge.