1870 Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse, Type A Core, Wide Frame

[Chopperman]

Thank for the additional info. Still being alive 25 years later is more logical. Here is my 1870.

That is a style I still don't have.

[rbminis]

My AWS measures 43.6 with a beading to outside edge
measurement of roughly 3.9

So, not the same but pretty close.
Ralph.

[Chopperman]

I guess I didn't expect them to match. IMO most typeA crosses were made
by Wagner or Godet. AWS crosses are not classified as typeA or B. They are
pretty much on their own.

I posted my AWS wide frame on a couple different forums several times
for a few years before anyone could determine what it was. I was told it
was everything from fake, to original to a ww2 era replacement piece.
It was not until Streptile did an in-depth study of AWS crosses that this style
really came to light.

[Miro]

Thank for the additional info. Still being alive 25 years later is more logical. Here is my 1870.

Very nice jubilee piece made by Steinhauer and Luck around 1900. It is portrayed in their 1905 catalogue.
Although the picture doesn´t match perfectly (as it is a drawing, not a photograph), this unique suspension with highly raised platform and drilled through jumpring can be clearly seen.

[Miro]

Great pick Up Ralph!!!
I will be staying tuned into this thread to learn more about the 25 year jubilee oak leaf. I always enjoy learning something on this fantastic site!!!

Semper Fi
Phil

Very good point, as 25 oakleaves are not documented and discussed as deeply as the 1870 crosses. As Greg already said and posted, there are many types of original oaks - but there are many convincing fakes as well.
What I have learned from my experience can be written in these simple rules:

If someone wants to be sure he buys original 25 oaks, he should buy pieces that are:

1. Hollow struck
2. Solid silver
3. Flatwire prongs
4. Prongs soldered in the center of oaks, bent to the opposite sides (fakes notoriously have rounded prongs soldered on sides and bent against each other)
5. Serif style of 25 ciphers

Note: these rules apply for full size oaks, not for Prinzens.

With this, I don´t want to say that there are not some original oaks that have sanserif letters, or different prongs. There are even some good oaks with eyelets instead of prongs. And there are many original oaks from silvered alloy. I just want to point out a few rules how to buy your first oaks safely without deep and excellent knowledge about exceptions.

[Miro]

Here one example of original oaks. Oaks are solid silver, hollow struck. Ciphers are serif type. Flatwire prongs are soldered in the center and go to opposite sides. If you see one like this for sale, don´t hesitate.

[Miro]

Here one convincing, but notorious fake. It is hollow struck from solid silver, so he passes rule 1. and 2.

But sanserif ciphers are not of accepted type. Prongs are round wire soldered on sides. These are even bent strangely in stickpin style. Never buy this type.

[Chopperman]

The sans-serif type shown by Miro above is commonly found on ebay
attached to a 9th bead fake type 1870 Ek2

[kirby]

Very nice jubilee piece made by Steinhauer and Luck around 1900. It is portrayed in their 1905 catalogue. Although the picture doesn´t match perfectly (as it is a drawing, not a photograph), this unique suspension with highly raised platform and drilled through jumpring can be clearly seen. <img src="https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/attachments/imperial-germany-austro-hungary/930242-1870-eisernes-kreuz-2-klasse-type-core-wide-frame-s-l-cat.jpg"/>

Thanks for the information. So it is correct to say Steinhauer and Luck was the only company to use this suspension?

[Miro]

The sans-serif type shown by Miro above is commonly found on ebay
attached to a 9th bead fake type 1870 Ek2

Precisely.
Ninth Bead Fake + Sanserif oaks + Repetition Clasp marked Wagner 800 - crown - halfmoon is the most common fake combo found on the market.