2 Imperial 1914 Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse, MAKER MARK CONFUSION!! HELP!!!!

[unimarc]

And here is the other

[Danny Warlick]

Now I'm really confused on another count. BOTH the makers referred to on the pages are not the names that I had found for them. I had "Z", Zeich of Berlin and "N", Neun of Rösner, Sachsen.

I'm confused...

[Chopperman]

Now I'm really confused on another count. BOTH the makers referred to on the pages are not the names that I had found for them. I had "Z", Zeich of Berlin and "N", Neun of Rösner, Sachsen.

I'm confused...

And so are the rest of us. Most of the names that we associate with the various makers
marks are pure assumptions. Some of the makers we know from period catalogs or
original marked containers or paperwork. Godet, Meybauer and AWS being the most
notables but many are just guesses made by researchers or authors matching up
markings with known jewellers or silversmiths of that time.

We are always hoping to find new evidence of makers but some we will never know.

As for the "N" or "Z" mark. How do we know that they are not the same company
and the jeweller just didn't hold his letter stamp the same way every time.

[unimarc]

And so are the rest of us. Most of the names that we associate with the various makers marks are pure assumptions. Some of the makers we know from period catalogs or original marked containers or paperwork. Godet, Meybauer and AWS being the most notables but many are just guesses made by researchers or authors matching up markings with known jewellers or silversmiths of that time. We are always hoping to find new evidence of makers but some we will never know. As for the "N" or "Z" mark. How do we know that they are not the same company and the jeweller just didn't hold his letter stamp the same way every time.

Because Z is stretched in one direction and N is compressed the other :-)
Not the same stamp !
Mfg
Marc

[Danny Warlick]

Greg,
How about the extended list published by Kisers Bunker? Is that list not reliable? Where did he get the information?
I really think I need to start trying to collect original copies of the 'Deutsche Offizier Verein'. You all probably know, it was an officer's association or co-operative that delivered catalogs and goods right to the front. They were not manufacturors but they did procure better quality military regalia for it's members, extra copies of the awards from original makers. Besides decorations there are various edged weapons marked with the 'Deutsche Offiziers Verein' logo. A similar organization was 'Warenhaus fur Armee und Marine, Berlin', also not a manufacturer but a supplier.
From my research on another forum it appears that every two years a book/catalogue was printed with approx 200 pages that included lists of membership, listing of profit made by DOV sales, ADVERTISEMENTS by sponsors (awards makers included) legal regulations and names and ranks of the board members.

I think that these books could be the best resource to find the answers. But the research will be exhausting.
I'm really frustrated already just thinking about it. 100+ year old books and documents.
Here kids a picture of one and an inside picture of the catalogue part and some of the advertisements.

(Pictures credit: User Name "Montgomery Burns" on the WAF forum)

[rbminis]

Hello Danny,
Are these photos of the catalogue yours? If not, please give credit where it is due. If they are, great catalogue to have!
The problem is that these catalogues rarely show what maker marks belong to who.
Ralph.

[Danny Warlick]

Ralph,
I also found this picture slowing there were variations of CD.

(Picture Credit: Holland verzamelt.nl - 1884 to1941 laws & regulations)

[Chopperman]

Tony's list (Kaiser's bunker) was the list many of us used for a long
time and it is still a good baseline however it has not been updated
in a long while.

The books by Frank Wernitz (from which Marc quoted) are a very
good reference however like all lists, they are not always 100% accurate.

You are a member at WAF. The Imperial database thread is a VERY good
place to try and match crosses to makers.

[unimarc]

I'm constantly revising and adding to Tony's ;-)

Mfg
Marc