Cargo Submarine U-Deutschland Artifacts and Model

[UBremen]

Dwight: These are only the crew members of the first trip. Some peoples very changed for the second trip.
If you interested I can send you a scan of the copy of the "Musterrolle" (not before sunday). It is the full list of all members.

Claas

[drmessimer]

Claas: Thanks, I would like to have a copy. Dwight

[STBaltimore]

Claas (and Steve and everyone else)

There is still hope of recovering the U-BREMEN someday. Here's an article about another submersible that may have suffered a similar fate as the BREMEN (but then again- maybe not)

I found the material enlightening and hope you all will too...

Amateur divers find U-boat wreckage
By Conall Ó Fátharta
Tuesday, January 25, 2011
AFTER years of searching, five amateur divers have
discovered the wreckage of a German U-boat which sank
at the entrance to Cork Harbour in 1917.

All 27 crew on board the UC-42 died when the submarine
sank while laying mines during the First World War. The
vessel is believed to have been accidentally sunk by one of
its own mines.

A team of five amateur divers discovered the wreckage on
November 6. Found in 27 metres of water just off Roches
Point, the U-boat measured about 38 metres long and was
found in remarkably good condition with little obvious
explosive damage.

It had been believed that divers using explosives from HMS
Vernon torpedo school had destroyed the submarine in July
1919, with the remains being dispersed on the seabed by
wire sweeps.

One of the divers who made the discovery, Ian Kelleher,
said the search for the wreckage was almost a "religion"
for keen divers.

"It was a religion in diving terms around here that there
was a U-boat missing out there. The fact that it had never
been found made it more of a mystery, and we believed
that by finding it that maybe we could tell the story of what
happened it and its crew, so we set out many years ago
actually to look for it. We got lucky and we found it," he
said.

The CIT chemistry student said the dive team had laid a
plaque of remembrance near the propellers, which
contained the number stamp used to positively identify the
vessel.

"Once it sank in September 1917, the British Admiralty
dived to confirm that it was there. We believed that if any
damage had been done to it by the British, there would still
be remains of it there. We just wanted to find it and see
what was left of it. What we found, on the other hand, was
quite the opposite. It was an intact submarine lying on the
bottom and not the scattered remains we had believed we
would find down there," he said.

Mr Kelleher said the team would try to contact the relatives
of the crew and urged divers visiting the wreckage to
respect the site as a grave.

"There aren’t very many U-boats in Ireland that are within
the reach of ordinary divers. This is, possibly, within the
reach of most divers out there. I do believe it will be a
magnet for divers. I would like to stress that it is a grave,
however. We have treated it as such and we have laid a
plaque there and anybody that dives it we would ask to
look but not touch," he said.

This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner
Tuesday, January 25, 2011


Read more: http://irishexaminer.ie/ireland/amateur-
divers-find-u-boat-wreckage-143084.html#ixzz1C0WO3igj

[Scout]

Claas (and Steve and everyone else)

There is still hope of recovering the U-BREMEN someday. Here's an article about another submersible that may have suffered a similar fate as the BREMEN (but then again- maybe not)

I found the material enlightening and hope you all will too...

Very interesting.
Thanks for posting.

One has to be optimistic, that the old sub will be found. Im certainly crossing my fingers.
Old subs does emerge - or rather are re-discovered.
Here articles about two of them - a German sub and a Soviet one:

Soviet submarine wreck found off Sweden

Published: 17 Dec 12 12:55 CET | Print version
Updated: 17 Dec 12 14:47 CET

The Swedish military announced on Monday it had discovered the remains of a Russian submarine on the Baltic Sea bed near the island of Öland.

"In the autumn of 1941 several Russian submarines left their home bases to patrol the Baltic Sea. Several of them never returned. One of them has now been found, blown up into large pieces, southeast of Öland," the Swedish Armed Forces (Försvarsmakten) said in a statement.

The wreck was discovered earlier this autumn following reports in the Russian media that Swedish civilian divers had found a submarine wreck southeast of Öland.

The wreck was localized by the submarine rescue ship HMS Belos, which also managed to take pictures of the sunken Soviet sub.

According to the Swedish military, the wreck is likely that of S-6, a Soviet submarine that went missing in September 1941.

The wreck was found near the "Wartburg minefield" in international waters, but within Sweden's economic zone.

While it remains unclear exactly what may have caused S-6 to go down, an open hatch provides some clues as to what may have happened.

"Boats at the time often sailed on the surface in order to quickly flee and/or to recharge their batteries," Commander Christian Allerman of the Swedish Navy said in a statement.

The Swedish military theorized that the submarine simply sailed right into the German minefield and was blown up.

The wreck consists of two main pieces, with the bow section coming to rest about 20 metres north of the stern section, which was found next to a torpedo-like object.

The images captured by the HMS Belos also show Russian text on the wreck, as well as the Soviet hammer and sickle.

In June 2009, divers found the wreck of the S-2, another Soviet sub sunk by mines in January 1940 with some 50 crew members on board, in waters further
north between Sweden and Finland.

Soviet submarine wreck found off Sweden - The Local






German sub found:



Article updated: 7/27/2012 5:24 PM

Explorers find German U-Boat off U.S. coast

BOSTON — Divers have discovered a World War II-era German submarine nearly 70 years after it sank under withering U.S. attack in waters off Nantucket.

The U-550 was found Monday by a privately funded group organized by New Jersey lawyer Joe Mazraani. It was the second trip in two years to the site by the team, some of whom had been searching for the lost U-boat for two decades.

Using side-scan sonar, the seven-man team located the wreck listing to its side in deep water about 70 miles south of Nantucket.

Sonar operator Garry Kozak said he spotted the 252-foot submarine during the second of an exhausting two days of searching. Kozak said the team asked him if they'd found it, then erupted in joy without a word from him.

"They could see it with the grin (on my face) and the look in my eyes," Kozak said.

On April 16, 1944, the U-550 torpedoed the gasoline tanker SS Pan Pennsylvania, which had lagged behind its protective convoy as it set out with 140,000 barrels of gasoline for Great Britain, according to the U.S. Coast Guard website and research by Mazraani.

The U-boat slipped under the doomed tanker to hide. But one of the tanker's three escorts, the USS Joyce, saw it on sonar and severely damaged it by dropping depth charges.

The Germans, forced to surface, manned their deck guns while another escort vessel, the USS Gandy, returned fire and rammed the U-boat. The third escort, the USS Peterson, then hit the U-boat with two more depth charges. The crew abandoned the submarine, but not before setting off explosions to scuttle it. The submarine hadn't been seen again until Monday.

The U-550 is one of several World War II-era German U-boats that have been discovered off the U.S. coast, but it's the only one that went down in that area, Mazraani said. He said it's been tough to find largely because military positioning of the battle was imprecise, and searchers had only a general idea where the submarine was when it sank. Kozak noted that the site is far offshore and has only limited windows of good weather.

The team towed a side-scan sonar vessel in a mow-the-lawn pattern over the search area and found the U-500 after covering 100 square miles of ocean, between the trip this year and last year, Kozak said.

Just the nose of U-boat was visible on sonar on the first pass, but the team was delirious after the second pass. when the sonar image made it obvious they'd found it, Mazraani said. Quick dives to the wreck to beat bad weather confirmed the find with pictures.

The other team members were Steve Gatto, Tom Packer, Brad Sheard, Eric Takakjian and Anthony Tedsechi

Mazraani is cagey about the vessel's precise location, saying only that it's in deep water. Mazraani's said his best estimate was that the team spent thousands of dollars of its own money on the expedition. He joked that no one on the team, whose members range in age from the mid-20s to mid-50s, stands to make money from the find unless someone writes a book.

Mazraani said the next step is to contact any sailors or their families from the escort vessels, the tanker and the German U-boat to share the news and show the pictures. Another trip to the site is coming, he said, adding the investigation has just started.

"The history behind it all is really what drives us," Mazraani said.

Explorers find German U-Boat off U.S. coast - DailyHerald.com

[STBaltimore]

Very interesting.
Thanks for posting.

One has to be optimistic, that the old sub will be found. Im certainly crossing my fingers.

What say we contact New Jersey lawyer Joe Mazraani and let him in on another mystery? Let's clue him in to the U-BREMEN's story, and what a unique story it is too; side-by-side with her sister, the U-DEUTSCHLAND.

Thanks for the leads and inspiration Scout. Well done!

Zuke? Got your ears on? What say we bring her up to periscope depth off the New Jersey coast and have a look-see?

[Scout]

Thanks.
And thank you for your comprehensive and most interesting contributions to this most awesome of threads.

What say we contact New Jersey lawyer Joe Mazraani and let him in on another mystery? Let's clue him in to the U-BREMEN's story, and what a unique story it is too; side-by-side with her sister, the U-DEUTSCHLAND.

Thanks for the leads and inspiration Scout. Well done!

Zuke? Got your ears on? What say we bring her up to periscope depth off the New Jersey coast and have a look-see?

Excellent idea! Mazraani is certainly into finding subs.

Further more, since no Spitfires were found in Burma, maybe Victor Kislyi would be interested.
Burma's buried Spitfires: the inside story of one man's obsession - Telegraph

[drmessimer]

I'll add a distressing note to St Baltimore's interesting post regarding UC42. for the last five or six years there have been reports of the wreck being looted. Some time ago it was reported that someone had buoyed the site. Here is a recent notice from the U-Boat Net:
The Garda National Bureau of Criminal Investigation is investigating several incidents in which clothes and other personal items belonging to its 27-strong crew were looted from the 49-metre, 400-tonne German vessel UC-42. It sank during a mine-laying operation in 1917. The hull appears to have been damaged by rogue divers attempting to remove a propeller.
The underwater archaeology unit of the Department of Arts and Heritage has received reports of damage to and removal of pieces of the wreck and other objects from the site.
According to underwater archaeologist Connie Kelleher, the wreck is particularly sensitive as it contains the remains of seamen who perished when the boat sank.
"The site, first and foremost, is a war grave, with up to 27 individuals having drowned when it sank in September 1917.
"To date, we have received reports of the structure being recently damaged by divers attempting to remove parts of it, of items that belonged to the crew being taken off the site and that one of the propellers was being made ready to be recovered, as evidenced by recent work to it.
"The site has a particular sensitivity due to it being a relatively recent German naval loss with crew who are known by name, many of who are likely to have close living relatives. The German Embassy has indicated its legitimate interest in its protection, preservation and non-disturbance."

Dwight

[Steve Zuke]

Hi folks,

Sorry it has been a while, the new stuff that has come in since the Christmas is great! StBaltimore I am already to go! To that end, the conversations going on by email offline of this forum are heating up. Dwight is back to working on his new book, and is starting to connect some dots with some of the things he is digging up with help from Claas. Along those lines I just emailed him a copy of a chart showing the water depth around the Orkney Islands. What we really need is a good topographic chart of the ocean floor in the area. If anyone can find one, or recommend a good one to purchase I would appreciate the help.

StBaltimore I think we need to start planning another meeting in the spring! There is all lot to talk about, charts to lean over, books and pictures reference, new scenarios postulate and debate, good food to eat, and German beer to drink! This we must do, most importantly, the beer part! If there is anyone else that wants to get in on it, now is your chance. We will be at the memorial in September, of course. If any of you regulars finds yourself on the East coast between Scranton PA or 50 miles south of Baltimore Maryland let us know, we can meet up.

As I said in post a while back somewhere out there are some pictures of the U-155 being scrapped. I know I've seen them somewhere, but after having gone through the bulk of my books I just can't seem to find them. The one picture I remember is of the stripped engine on the dock with its cylinder’s lying next to it. The cylinders were bigger than paint cans. The pictures will turn up somewhere. I have the minions working on it.

Meanwhile, in the process of looking for them it just so happens the very first U-boat book I got, and the one that got me interested in these two U-boats, by Anthony Preston titled U-boats has a few pictures of the U-155 that I do not believe we've posted. Therefore, I offer the following two pages for your consideration. On the top of page 70 the stereoscopic slide is not of the U-155 torpedo tubes. On page 71 the bottom picture is upside down. Meanwhile I notice the main compass and its remote compass (the small one they would take up on deck) are missing. My guess is this picture was taken after the ship was surrendered and traveling around as a war prize. Somewhere, in somebody's basement or attic there is one hell of a prize waiting to show up on eBay!
As far as Anthony Preston's book is concerned I can't recommend it enough. It is a phenomenal work with tons of pictures. If you have an interest in U-boats, from either world war, I cannot recommend it enough.




Best wishes,
Zuke

P.S Claas thank you for posting the picture of the diesel engine used in the U-Deutschland. It is a much Sharper Image of the one that I posted earlier. My guess is the person that provided the image for the book that I referenced copied it from the book that you used.

[Howie]

I stumbled on his site because of research I was doing concerning the U-Deutschland. My grandfather was one of the mechanics on the ship. I will share with you the little bit I know about his experiences serving on the U-Deutschland. He served on the ship during its two crossings as a merchant ship, and continued serving after it was converted for war. There is a postcard on this site with the names of the seaman on the boat. He was number 11, Ludwig Shwarzschild. I believe he was the youngest of the crew. Ironically, he did not know how to swim. He never explained to us (his family) how he wound up on a submarine considering he didn't swim. He always spoke very highly of Captain Koenig, saying the captain was a very nice man, and the crew was very happy and proud to be on the ship. But he did not have the same sentiment for Captain Meusel, whom he referred to as a pig. My grandfather told me on the initial crossing they did very little submerging. When they reached Baltimore they were treated very well, and he felt like a celebrity. They were wined and dined, and given gifts. The same held true when they returned to Germany. Quite naturally, when the boat was converted for war the climate changed. Even though they knew the first two crossings as a merchant ship was dangerous, they were optimistic. But once they went to war, they didn't expect to survive. They were constantly on patrol and spent a majority of the time submerged. His distaste for Captain Meusel went beyond the captain's personality. As it was told to me, while on patrol one day they disabled what I believe was a Greek freighter, and rather than taking the survivors Captain Meusel had the freighter's crew all killed. My grandfather never went into detail about the incident, but it upset and haunted him until he died. I believe after the war, my grandfather testified at some sort of hearing about Captain Meusel's actions. My grandfather left Germany in the 1930s and eventually wound up in the United States. In the late 1970s, my grandfather visited Germany. When he went, he was again treated as a celebrity. I believe he was given the key to the city by the mayor of Frankfurt, and there were numerous newspaper articles written about a crew member of the U-Deutschland returning to visit. I have a few artifacts from my grandfather including his assignment book with his orders to report to the U-Deutschland, a silver cigarette case each of the crew was given in Wiesbaden, his U-Boat buckle, his Iron Cross and other various medals. He passed away in the late 1980s. I hope you found this information interesting.

[Scout]

Hi Howie
Welcome to the forum.
Very interesting indeed.
Could you post pics of the items you mentioned, please?