Could this be Von Richthofen in this photo??

**big ned** · 04-02-2011, 03:52 AM

BILL!!!

I think you've got it right mate!!! That sure looks a damn near perfect match.

The guy on the left is Leutnant Sebastian Festner and the one on the right is Leutnant Georg Simon. Sitting cross legged on the floor is Lothar von Richtofen, Manfred's younger brother.

Well done mate!!

Regards, Ned.

**Bill T** · 04-02-2011, 04:07 AM

Man, you are good....How do you know all these guys! haha The photo posted is of Jasta 11. It was said online where I found it that the red baron is in this photo as well (in the plane). I did not know his brother was in it too!?
I cant wait to look up the other names you have given me! By the way, Thank you for all of your help in this Ned, I appreciate it.

**Bill T** · 04-02-2011, 04:13 AM

here are some photos of The Red Baron.

**Bill T** · 04-02-2011, 04:29 AM

The second one down below is of The red baron and this is the closest one I could find in resemblence to my photo. But in my photo it very well could be his brother Lother Von Richtofen, but Im still pretty convinced it is The Baron himself after searching and comparing pretty much ALL of the photos that might exist of him. haha
Still interested in Opinions.

**Bill T** · 04-02-2011, 05:59 PM

Ned (or anyone else), Someone said they think the older man could be Red Barons Father Albrecht von Richtofen. What do you think?

**big ned** · 04-02-2011, 06:53 PM

Hi Bill,

Looks like a pretty good match to Albrecht. In your original photo there does appear to be a beard on the older gentleman as there was on his father, an army Major.

It is worth bearing in mind that whilst a moustache was allowed in the Air Service, a beard was not. Therefore the gentleman is not a member of that corps, he's Army.

So. Age, beard, Army not Air Service = A very good chance it's his old man.

Regards, Ned.

**wingandprop** · 04-02-2011, 07:52 PM

I think Ned's last picture pretty well rules out the chance of it being Papa in Panzer's first picture. To start with, the officer in the original picture is in a much different uniform than is shown in either Ned's or Panzer's pics of Albrecht (single breasted as opposed to double, and look at the collar lintzen (is that the right word?)). More importantly, however, as indicated by the lines in Ned's picture, Albrecht was about 4 to 5 inches taller than was his famous son. In Panzer's original picture the two men are clearly shown to be the same height. I do think it's Richtofen in Panzer's original picture, but not Albrecht. Boelcke's face was not the same proportions as MvR's: A greater length to width ratio. I also suspect the other two officers have been correctly identified. The fact that they look a lot alike is good, but these pictures just aren't clear enough to reach a clear conclusion based upon appearances alone. In addition, however, the association would match and their relative heights in the two photos also appear to match. I don't think its definitive, but I do think it is a good likelihood.

**big ned** · 04-02-2011, 08:08 PM

Gotta agree with the height difference. Looks like i was premature (AGAIN!) as my missus is won't to say!

Regards, Ned.

**davejb** · 04-02-2011, 08:10 PM

How tall was the Baron, judging by the brickwork from ground to top of his head estimated at each brick being standard size , allowing for the angle of the photo , this guy appears to be just over 6feet

**Bill T** · 04-02-2011, 08:37 PM

by wingandprop

I think Ned's last picture pretty well rules out the chance of it being Papa in Panzer's first picture. To start with, the officer in the original picture is in a much different uniform than is shown in either Ned's or Panzer's pics of Albrecht (single breasted as opposed to double, and look at the collar lintzen (is that the right word?)). More importantly, however, as indicated by the lines in Ned's picture, Albrecht was about 4 to 5 inches taller than was his famous son. In Panzer's original picture the two men are clearly shown to be the same height. I do think it's Richtofen in Panzer's original picture, but not Albrecht. Boelcke's face was not the same proportions as MvR's: A greater length to width ratio. I also suspect the other two officers have been correctly identified. The fact that they look a lot alike is good, but these pictures just aren't clear enough to reach a clear conclusion based upon appearances alone. In addition, however, the association would match and their relative heights in the two photos also appear to match. I don't think its definitive, but I do think it is a good likelihood.

Good investigating WingnProp!!! Although there are clearly visible similarities to the facial features, I beleive you are right on the height issue. I wonder who it would be then? The man also has a cane, did Albrecht ever use a cane? I dunno? But I agree with your conclusion for now, seeing the height is a major issue. But after closely examining with an eye loupe/different scan views, and watching many vidoes/clips of the Baron, I am ALMOST fully comfortable with the ID. I also agree with your statement about it Not being Boelke. I have also watched many clips of him as well, and I am certain that it is not him. But he did have similar features tho.

Ned, very interesting to know that a beard was not within guidelines of regulation but a mustache was. Pretty neat to know. (off topic) But I have a late 30s pic of an SA motors mann with a goatee. I wonder what the rules were for those? hah

But the 2 men with the mustaches (simon and Festner) were in Jasta 11, both of the Richtofens unit/squadron. Manfred lead the unit while his brother Lothar joined the squadron, later Lothar took over Manfreds position of Jasta 11. I am still searching through photos of Jasta 11 to see if I can make an ID of the other members in my photo.
As always, thanks for posting everyone.