I would appreciate all opinions regarding the colour of a faded ribbon on a ribbon bar I have acquired.

[Chopperman]

It can not be two second class Eks.
Non combat or not, a second award would have a been an upgrade to a Ek1.

[KSH]

It can not be two second class Eks.
Non combat or not, a second award would have a been an upgrade to a Ek1.

Can you prove that Greg, with some period sources? It doesn't seem consistent with later German practices regarding similar situations. For example, Hitler did not re-establish the non-combatant EKII in 1939, instead he created the Kriegsverdienstkreuz (War Merit Cross) with and without swords (for non-combatants). One man could receive both a KVKII with swords AND a KVKII without swords - but if both had been awarded to the same man only the award with swords was to be displayed. It was the same with the KVKI. But as we all know regulations were flaunted back then too. I have seen so many violations of award regulations and other uniform regulations on period photographs, that I've stopped saying: "That can't be right because it is against the regulations".

So I would really like to see some real evidence that clearly states that the awarding of a combatant EKII AND a non-combatant EKII to the same man could not take place. And if you are correct on this Greg, I just can't think what else this ribbon might be. I cannot make it to be anything else than white/black - and I sure have looked hard with an open mind here. Are there any other WW1 awards sporting a similar ribbon?

- Kenneth

[Chopperman]

I can not prove it. BUT by your same standards can you prove there was ever
instances of a person earning 2 Ek2s.

[KSH]

I can not prove it. BUT by your same standards can you prove there was ever
instances of a person earning 2 Ek2s.

No, I can't prove it at all, so my argument doesn't stand up any better than yours my friend It just doesn't make any sense to me that non-combatant EKIIs and combatant EKIIs were regarded as exactly the same award. Just an example: A man gets a non-combatant EKII for performing some merit on the homefront. Then he gets sent to the front as a soldier to the frontlines later in the war when he is needed. In this situation it seems very unreasonable to me that he is know eligible to a "combatant" EKI in the field, without having to earn a combatant EKII first. It makes absolutely no sense to me.

But I may be as wrong as wrong can be. But sometimes pressing forward theories can achieve some interesting discussions!

- Kenneth

[Chopperman]

A second award of a Ek2 in a different conflict would mean that the
person would be awarded the spange to the Ek2. Not a second Ek2.

[KSH]

A second award of a Ek2 in a different conflict would mean that the
person would be awarded the spange to the Ek2. Not a second Ek2.

I was here talking within the bounds of one single conflict (WW1)! I should have been clearer on that!

- Kenneth

[Chopperman]

I do believe that any 2nd award to a Ek2 during the same conflict would mean
an upgrade to a Ek1.

I have taken the liberty of asking this question on the other two forums that
I am active on. It will be interesting in seeing what response I get.

[KSH]

I do believe that any 2nd award to a Ek2 during the same conflict would mean
an upgrade to a Ek1.

I have taken the liberty of asking this question on the other two forums that
I am active on. It will be interesting in seeing what response I get.

That will be interesting indeed! I am prepared to be very wrong here! If I am wrong though, then my ribbon bar just doesn't make any sense at all...

- Kenneth

[Chopperman]

Can you get any better pics of the back where it possibly isn't faded as bad?
I'm not saying it's not white. I am just preparing for the questions that will
be asked on the other forums.

[Walkwolf]

Iron Cross II
Wurttemburg Tapferkeit Medal
Hindenberg Cross
War Merit Cross
Westwall Medal

Yellow with black stripes. Have a peek under the ribbon.

Colours fade ( On a lot of Friedrich August Medal
ribbons, the blue stripes have faded to white )