I'm very happy that you Liked my post Glen , thats means a lot to me . Thank you
I'm very happy that you Liked my post Glen , thats means a lot to me . Thank you
Mr Jaba..the thread may have been closed .....from what I have read in the previous thread due to a lack of topic support except ..that all you stated that Glenns pin was fake.
If that were the case, then you would of provided that necessary documentation and the thread would of remained opened and not closed due to " freedom of opinion" per se`.
Within this thread I see no threat of closure as THIS FORUM is based on Photographic fact and Text support...not seen in the prior thread. This thread will continue on its course ..now that documentation and photos have been supplied.
Im sure you know as well as anyone else....that " never believe anything you hear..and only half of what you see "
Photos and hard fact..will support any thread discussion and its longevity.
This thread is going in a good direction
Regards Larry
It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!!
One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C
“The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
Hope that realy goes in a good direction....by Larry C
Mr Jaba..the thread may have been closed .....from what I have read in the previous thread due to a lack of topic support except ..that all you stated that Glenns pin was fake.
If that were the case, then you would of provided that necessary documentation and the thread would of remained opened and not closed due to " freedom of opinion" per se`.
Within this thread I see no threat of closure as THIS FORUM is based on Photographic fact and Text support...not seen in the prior thread. This thread will continue on its course ..now that documentation and photos have been supplied.
Im sure you know as well as anyone else....that " never believe anything you hear..and only half of what you see "
Photos and hard fact..will support any thread discussion and its longevity.
This thread is going in a good direction
Regards Larry
I would like to say one more thing . I do feel Glenn was treated rather poorly and not spoken to with respect he deserves by some members here . Some of the short negative replies can be rather upsetting , when posted without supporting evidence . Please try and be nice and supportive with each other , even if sharing bad news , no-one likes bad news . Thank you all .
As long as an amicable discussion ensues..I see it going in the right direction
Difference of opinion is the substance of any discussion..without those differences..there would be no forum..or truth be found after research and thought.
"Some" surgeries have to get messy first...the question is,,. can those who participate in these discussions have the stomach for it?
I have full confidence that Mr Jaba and all who are contributing here..will allow the thread to prosper in the right direction.
Regards Larry
It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!!
One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C
“The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
Ok i confess ...maybe i have use "hard words" in some posts. I would make "peace" with Glenn. Would you forgive me?
But at the same time present one piece of collection , convinced that "the only way is mine" is not good.
We learn all life, ..
Sašo
Do allow me to throw in my two cents in this discussion as well.
First up, let me make two things clear:
a) I do not collect these badges and thus have no examples of my own to share, nor am I qualified to comment on an airship badge's authenticity or lack thereof.
b) I do not wish to attack or defend and certainly not to offend one of the parties involved.
Having said that, I understand Glenn's displeasure with having his badge called fake. Nobody likes to hear that; it's only human. He has full confidence in his badge and states that it came from a private household via knowledgable contacts. So, his reaction is understandable.
On the other hand, I also understand the reasons why Alex made this judgment. The points he has raised are valid and supported by the current state of research into these badges.
In addition to what has been said above, allow me to add that the Airship Badges are also covered in vol. I of Imperial German Flight Badges by Robert S. Pandis who also attributes the badges with the extra ribbon work on top to Godet alone and shows three badges from this particular manufacturer, including a silver one. All clearly differ from Glenn's piece and have the characteristics cited by Alex such as the two long gondolas inside the wreath and the airship's bow and stern protruding further from the wreath. (I know that this, too, is modern-day secondary literature and do not claim that this book - or any other one, for that matter - is guaranteed to be free of errors, but still, it, too, supports Alex' statements.)
So, what do we have so far?
Glenn posted the badge on the forum. He is certain that it is real and thus didn't post it for the express purpose of review or evaluation, but we all know that anything posted can and will become subject to discussion.
Alex is equally certain that the badge is fake and said as much, citing what is currently believed to be fact when it comes to this type of badge with the extra ribbon work.
Glenn has closed his thread as he does not wish to continue the discussion; Alex has started a new one, as he does. I must say, I, too, feel that the discussion should be allowed to go on.
Personally, I also tend to agree with Alex' position in terms of the item's authenticity, but if I am totally objective, I have to say that so far, neither side has provided truly foolproof, period-documented, "forensic" evidence for their position.
So far, we have had references to several secondary sources (including one such reference made by myself) and to what is currently generally believed, plus mutual assurances that neither party is a beginner.
So, let the dicussion continue, but please, let us keep it civil and as objective and unemotional as possible.
Last edited by HPL2008; 05-07-2016 at 07:49 PM.
You need not ask for my forgiveness , I agreed with most of your actions , I only ask you use a nicer way of saying it . You seem to know your stuff and that is what makes this Forum such a wonderful place , knowledgable member freely sharing their knowledge with other . Just remember other peoples feelings .
Please allow me to clear things up a bit; The reason I closed the thread was out of frustration, as initially the badge was called "It's a fake, sorry"- without any information at all and by someone outside of the membership...I should just take his word for it, eh?? The back & forth was tiresome and going nowhere...
Here is my opinion about this badge: Keep in mind that these weren't issued, they were available on the open market as a Commemorative in jewelry-stores, department stores, etc...Godet just happened to produce the High-Quality Badges our new friend mentions and shows from his book...
The badge is indeed 800 Silver Plated; the 800-Marking is not fake and the Silver is Real- The fakes are not Silver, nor are they marked as such-they're often marked Godet though- and deterioration can be seen in areas where the plating has chipped off on the catch (see photo)...This was found in a box amongst a tangle of vintage costume jewelry -brooches, necklaces etc...It was sold to me as a vintage brosche, which it is...I maintain that this is a post-WWI privately purchased, 800 silver-plated badge...and not a modern fake designed to deceive collectors as was concluded by our friend, simply because it isn't in his book and not a Godet...There is room for study regarding these badges, and I disagree with the contention that his book is the final word...
All I have to say, friends...Thanks to All for your input, and continued Good Luck out there...
cheers, Glenn
Don't belive that there are no silver fakes out there. This is a dangerous conclusion.
There are silver copies of many of the aviation badges including the Luftschiffer badges. Nearly all the bad Juncker copies out there are made of silver.
There is no end in research but this is the current state of knowledge. Not my personal oppinion. It is a result of many years of research done by collectors with foresight. Closing the eyes of the work done by many experts mean to live in the past, do the same misstakes as done by many collectors, including me, when I started collection.
Glen it is your to belive what you want, to agree or disagree with oppinions, but be open for news and take your conclusions.
Buy literature ask old cllectors and open your point of view.
I'm not happy to bring bad news and I sorry fot that.
Here a portion of the silver copies out there:
Kind regards
Alex
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