WW1 Helmet with a Puzzle ?

[Nitram]

Czechoslovakia used black WWII helmets as CD helmets; maybe a few WWI helmets snuck in.

Nitram

[AlecH]

I'd like to see what the others looks like, for curiosity sake.


Helmetone - I bought the M16 and put a reserve on the M17 - pick it up next month. I will put them up for view later, on another thread, I've not issues with them, only this one with black paint, don't really want to muddy the waters by introducing other helmets to the thread. Stefan and Nitram's suggestions are of course two possibilities, but pretty long shots in my opinion. Regards

[Adler]

Sorry, but for me there’s something wrong with this helmet… In the last picture you can already see several red flags…
A) BLUE: The stamp Otto Koch isn’t correct. Normally the date is on top of Otto Koch & C Berlin S. Also the lettertype isn’t correct… Something else to think about: A mod 18 helmet with a strap from 1917?
B) LIGHT BLUE: Buckle has the wrong shape… pointy corners. Otto Koch straps have rounded corners.
C) RED: Stitching is to white, compared with the rest of the helmet and liner
D) YELLOW: Otto Koch straps were normally stitched with black thread. Here also remnants of something brown are visible on beige thread
E) PINK: This piece of leather is clearly cut by hand
F) GREEN: The linerband has almost all of the feldgrau paint present, while the rest of the helmet is almost completely covered with rust on the inside.
For me the liner is not original, so I would look at this helmet as one without liner to determine the amount of hard earned money to spend…
Hope this helps you…

Adler



How it should be (unissued example M18, even the linercord is still attached the way it came out of the factory...)

[AlecH]

Adler thanks for the post,
Nice to see something concrete on the page. I did trawl through the internet looking for Otto Koch chinstraps found only one, the same picture posted here, which you posted on Pickelhaube.com, if you have other Otto Koch chinstraps could you post a picture of them ? as its difficult to form a opinion with a database of one. I shall be handing this helmet back - to many known unknowns.
Your obviously a man who knows what he's talking about, hope you don't mind me going through the points you raise - giving my slant (A) I cant really say much about the Otto Koch stamp as I've only seen one other, but I've seen loads of helmets, for example M42 helmets issued with original M40 straps, so I never had a great concern about a M18 helmet with a M17 strap.
(B) Koch Buckle shapes same applies as (A)
(C) One of the liner pads has whiter stitching than the others pads - the others were white - over time and uneven wear plus soiling you get a difference.
(D) Need to look at a couple of Otto Koch straps for the stitching colour
(E) Clearly hand cut - how you can see that from the picture I don't know, looked along the edge of the whole strap has a uniform finish.
(F) Feldgrau liner band - as you say the helmet inside has no paint at all - the liner band is painted feldgrau, but did the firm who made the shell pressing, produce the liners ? were the liners made and painted by another firm, then sent out to be assembled together with the shell ? I don't know.
As I say, it will be given back. Regards

[Adler]

Alech, these are only my observations, but all together there are to many red flags on the same helmet...
The Otto Koch stamp still has different lettertype, the edges are still hand cut (i see only this one picture of course), and the date has to be on top of Otto Koch stamp... I handled different helmets with Otto Koch marking on the strap, and they were all the same. To bad I haven't any more pics of that.
Uneven wear and soiling... Ok, but no wear at all on this one piece? The wearer must have had a strange head... Also, the thread is really to white for being almost 100 jears old...
Indeed, the condition of the linerband doesn't match the rest of the inside of the helmet... Even worse: when a helmet is in this condition, why is the liner and band looking better? Sorry, for me they don't match...
Anyway, as I said before, those are only my observations and I just wanted to help you out with this one. When other people have other opinions, I will also repect them... but maybe I will not agree with them...

Adler

[AlecH]

OK Adler,
Pity - we have no other Otto Koch strap pictures. Wear and discolour usually are uneven, if the wearer had a receding hair line at the front and greased hair at the side and back you would get this effect - don't need to have a strange shaped head. The liner band and helmet inside don't match, really I was asking in my last post if you knew whether the bands were painted or not before being assembled with the shells ? your posts much appreciated.
Regards

[davejb]

The bands and liner were generally made by a different company so they should have been painted prior to the leather being sewn on, the ET company used these in accordance with the related sizes so I believe

[AlecH]

Dave,
Thanks for your post, taking what you write one stage further, it would then be surprising if they did match?
Regards

[davejb]

I dont think there was any hard and fast ruling ,they used what was available as far as I know, I think Steve" Oradour" might have some input on these or Jim and Doug

[Chopperman]

Helmet Puzzle

- - Updated - -

Sorry,
I couldn't resist.