Headgear from Tirpitz

[AMTG]

It was a history channel doco I saw.....u think it was the ship sunk by the Russians carrying the refugees and sailors....anyway, they howled footage of the crew quarters and ome lockers and a trunk, inside we're great coats and other jackets still inside them....I doubt they'd survive if moved, but they were there!

[octavian]

Maybe the cap floated down into the FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH. lol.

[KMMorris]

still not satisfied with his one.
Morris

[Vegard T]

It just cant be, cloth in sea water. It would destroy the fabric and remove the golden colours of the insignia. It is impossible that it could have been in the water for 70 yes and look like it was made yesterday. If all the metal insignia is not original wouldn't this just make it another plain navy cap. I would like to believe it survived the tirpitz but in this condition i think not.

Morris

Guess I'll have to repeat that the insignia is not original to the cap.
To convince you even more: The cap was recovered by one of the moderators at samlerforumet, and below is a KM sailor's tie recovered and restored:

Pictures borrowed from hans-g:










Still not convinced? Then I give up, if you don't want to believe it, then fine.

EDIT:

Borrowed these from the WAF thread, as you can see, the ribbon is still there, and probably in an okay condition after some cleaning.

[Scout]

I think it's the U-534 that was salvaged from the Kattegat in the early 90's and now resides (in pieces) at Birkenhead.

Merseyside's U Boat - U-534

Yes, as I harped on about before; IMO a crying shame, that it was cut up. Im just glad, I traveled to see it, when it had just been raised, so I remember it that way.

If seafaring contraptions were not supposed to be female gender and referred to as a 'she' and if it was possibe to emasculate a sub, they certainly did that

OT rant over. Back on track. I have problems with the perfect preservation of the cap in seawater as well.
Even if if encapsulation in silt, mud, diesel would have staved off decay, there would still be marks from decades under water and from the restoration.

[Scout]

Guess I'll have to repeat that the insignia is not original to the cap.
To convince you even more: The cap was recovered by one of the moderators at samlerforumet, and below is a KM sailor's tie recovered and restored:

------------PICS-----------------

Still not convinced? Then I give up, if you don't want to believe it, then fine.

Its not, that I dont want to believe, as stated before.
Im certainly willing to listen to arguments, but there is a difference between the preservation of a relatively simple cloth item like the shapeless 'tie' and the perfectly preserved peaked cap.

The cap has a contour/shape and material vastly different from the tie and I simply have problems digesting, that the cap should be preserved this well.

Very interesting none the less. Thanks for posting.

[KMMorris]

Its not, that I dont want to believe, as stated before.
Im certainly willing to listen to arguments, but there is a difference between the shapeless 'tie' and the perfectly preserved cap.
The cap has a contour/shape and material different from the tie and I simply have problems digesting, that the cap should be preserved this well.

exactly my point Scout.

Morris

[Scout]

Over 800 men went down with the Tirpitz, I know that bones are still found today often scattered on the beach where they have been left by members of the diving public who have been searching the wreck area for souvenirs. This is unfortunately allowed by the Norwegian government, just imagine that being allowed here or in the States.....

Ive heard something to that effect as well. When diving on either Blücher or the Tirpitz supposedly large quantities of skeletal remains were simply shoveled out of the way/the wreck by divers in order to search the ship prior to what ever the government wanted done with the ship.

There were/are still deep rooted .....sentiments (lets be diplomatic) and what happened during the war is not easily forgotten.

Im not pointing any fingers. Norway has my full sympathy for what happened during the harsh invasion and occupation of their country. Further more Norwegians fought back valiantly and the country paid the price.

Im just also of the belief, that the remains of soldiers from what ever side of that conflict, should be treated with respect.

Remains of German fighting men from the ships sunk in Norway should be treated with respect, recovered and buried, as the Norwegians obviously didnt feel the ships could or should be considered war graves.

[Danmark]

Headgear from Tirpitz. This was found on the wreck of the Tirpitz a year ago.
Attachment 399555Attachment 399556Attachment 399557

This is straying somewhat from the original post - if one takes away the eagle, the cockade, the tally band ( all freshly replaced as readily admitted ) and look at whats left in the grainy photos, we cant really say that the wool is pristine, can we? I can see lots of discolour and no-one said it was supple - it may well be stiff as a board?

Let's give the newbies some slack or we'll scare them away with our "grumpy old manliness" talk.
After all, they found these boots on the sea floor in the Titanics debris field after 90 years at nearly 4000 metres and 6000 pounds per square inch pressure!!!!

Dan

[Scout]

As your post follows directly after one of my posts, allow me to reply.

I for one feel, that I have been nothing but respectful and as stated ad nauseum, Im perfectly willing to be convinced and I will not dismiss the claim out of hand.

I think we have a very interesting topic, debate and pics going here.

I certainly welcome and value any input, that 'kurto,' 'CollectorWW2' and others can contribute.
Personally, I am looking forward to more information 'surfacing' about this topic (sorry for the pun).

Now, back to the cap itself and your arguments above; if the cap comes straight from the Tirpitz and is indeed 'stiff as a board,' do you really think it would have been preserved in the perfect shape for wearing, as seen on the head of the dummy in the pics you yourself quote?

Had the cap indeed been preserved in mud, silt, diesel and engine oil slush, I would have believed it to have been crushed, folded or other wise have stiffened up in any other shape than perfect for wearing at a jaunty angle decades after the fact.

...just saying

You do have a point how ever; from the not perfect pics, we cant know whether or not the cap is badly cracked after being straightned out in a shape fit for wearing after being under water for so long.

Nor can we discern the particulars of the current state of the cap.

Maybe the OP and others can contribute better pics and more info about this.