kriegsmarine cap by Hugo Poppe, original but from what year?

[vonbrugge]

I need some help with this marine tellermutze. It is my first (kriegs)marine item. linienschiff Hannover was taken out of service in 1936... 2 years in use under the nazi gouvernement... so the eagle and wreath may be legit. Help would be great Since I don't know much about this manufacturer and KM headgear in general. Is there a way to spot the difference between reichsmarine fabric and third reich fabric?

I thank you all for your input

[stonemint]

I have no doubt your cap is original.
I believe Poppe was a distributor, not a maker.

Here is an Admiral visor that was sold by Hermann Historica several years ago:

[Wagriff]

I'm not seeing anything that says post war. It looks to be a TR era Donald Duck. Nice.

[Wilhelm Saris]

Looks okay to me also. Nice to see the tally.
There is positioned an eagle and a cockade, not a wreath!

[vonbrugge]

I found some things out
First of all, I was not questioning whether this Tellermutze is postwar or not. Since Linienschiff Hannover made her maiden trip in 1905 and was taken out of service in 1936, I felt like this tellermutze could have been made anywhere inbetween. For example if this cap was made in 1918, an upgrade with this TR hoheitsadler wouldn't have been logical after all those years. Then this piece would be historically incorrect. BUT I found out that the fraktur-styled tallys were introduced in 1930. So that means my cap is for sure a 1930's product. The 24.3.1934 regulation states that the earlier national kokarde should be replaced by a hoheitseagle. They probably reissued this only (maximum) 4 year old tellermutze and gave it an eagle. The combo of the Tellermutze and the eagle was my largest concern but i'm happy it turns out to be plausible and historically acurate

[Wilhelm Saris]

This stye of cap came into being with orders of April 5, 1921 and was
upgraded in April 1926, (Marineverordnungsblatt, nr. 96 from 1926,
page 91) to be further developed per December 1931 and known as
"Tellermütze", but also as "Schlöffelmütze".

The Latin lettering was replaced by Gothic, known as deutscher Schrift,
in October 1929 (Marineverordnungsblatt, nr.246 from 1929, page 156),
but took until early 1930. For Linienschiff Hannover this was about February
1930 (Ostseestationtagesbefehl, nr. 30 from 1930), but before April 1930.
It is literally said "auf den Tag der Indienststellung, bzw. Bildung".

The eagle actually was ordered on April 10, 1934 (Ostseestationtagesbefehl,
nr. 58), to be worn the next day (ab Dienstbeginn). See the announcement
from March 29, 1934 and actual introduction from April 10, 1934:







Due to the height of the front, to me it seems a cap according 1931
regulation. The eagle with cockade fit perfectly. It seems to me also
the eagle is the second form from about April 1935 and is from
gilded aluminum or light-weight metals!

[vonbrugge]

thanks man! that is some great information!

[harryamb2]

a very nice cap.

[Wilhelm Saris]

thanks man! that is some great information!

I contacted a friend of mine in Germany with an enormous knowledge of the navy, especially
tallies. He is a true expert. The "Hannover" was indeed striked off from the list of war-ships,
possibly about in late spring or early summer 1936. There is however a big BUT!!

The use of the eagle is hardly possible and as far as informed they only did wear the Weimar
eagle-cockade. I did not know about the off-duty in 1931. So my conclusion about the use of
the eagle possibly is not correct!

The "Hannover" acted with a fleet-parade in front of von Hindenburg per May 20, 1931
and further was in action during the manoeuvres of fall the same year. September 11 the
farwell-parade for Flottenchef Oldekop took place and the "Hannvover" awaited off duty.
This took place September 25, 1931 at Kiel at the Marinearsenal.

So, officially the ship was of no use anymore for active navy duty and was disarmed at some
shipyard. The crew was spread for other duties and was send to their repectively "Stamm-
marineteile" or other commands where they did wear other tallies. Other plans for the
old ship existed, but the ship was not mentioned anymore in lists. But just in the books for
the shipyard.
This you can read in "Die deutsche Kriegsschiffe", Biographien from Hans Hildebrand and
other authors and in other sources.


(credit: B. Wedeking)

Due to lack of knowledge the eagle was positioned with the German cockade. Possibly to get
more money for a Third Reich item. To be correct it however should be the Reichsadlerkokarde.

[vonbrugge]

again a nice bit of research, appreciate this! a bit dissapointed though