Mint Infantry Erel schirmmütze

[Koguryo9]

Herr FB,

Speaking of Kleiderkasse vs. private purchase, I wanted to ask if there is really a detectable difference in quality and construction etc. between those Kleiderkasse caps and those private purchase ones made by renown makers like EREL? For example I have seen many EREL visor caps bearing the Heer or Luftwaffe Klerderkasse markings, they look just as good as those that do not, quality wise.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Look at this RZM tag, and see that the number of makers of Dienstkleidung was in the tens of thousands, most of whom are nameless and unremarked, but surely were of notable quality. Notice that under D 5, this firm was among some more than thirty thousand firms so licensed.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Herr FB,

Speaking of Kleiderkasse vs. private purchase, I wanted to ask if there is really a detectable difference in quality and construction etc. between those Kleiderkasse caps and those private purchase ones made by renown makers like EREL? For example I have seen many EREL visor caps bearing the Heer or Luftwaffe Klerderkasse markings, they look just as good as those that do not, quality wise.

The Kleiderkasse was also private purchase, but through a coop where credit was regulated and the clothing allowance was paid by the service into an account for the member officer. Lubstein made caps for the clothing cooperatives of all the services, I imagine, because they made good quality at a low price. You tell me the difference between the grades of Lubstein caps, since I have never cared to unravel it, save for the private mark. I have somewhere the statement about the tailor made caps, which were likely like any tailor made item. Officers were Selbsteinkleider, i.e. they had to equip themselves with their uniform, for which they got a clothing allowance.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

The comparison of the Wellhausen catalog with that of the Kleiderkasse des Heeres is instructive, or that of Holters. However, these caps were not especially expensive for the person in question.

[Koguryo9]

The Kleiderkasse was also private purchase, but through a coop where credit was regulated and the clothing allowance was paid. Lubstein made caps for the clothing cooperatives of all the services, I imagine, because they made good quality at a low price. You tell me the difference between the grades of Lubstein caps, since I have never cared to unravel it, save for the private mark. I have somewhere the statement about the tailor made caps, which were likely like any tailor made item. Officers were Selbsteinkleider, i.e. they had to equip themselves with their uniform, for which they got a clothing allowance.

Thanks Herr FB. However within the Kleiderkasse system, was there a line of "economy/bargin" products that are of lesser quality? I mean all cap makers that Kleiderkasse contracted, not just ERELs? Could they be making some sort of a cheaper product, materials and construction-wise in order to lower the cost?

In terms of the different EREL grades, I think most collectors agree that there are no known differences, even the prized Privat class.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Thanks Herr FB. However within the Kleiderkasse system, was there a line of "economy/bargin" products that are of lesser quality? I mean all cap makers that Kleiderkasse contracted, not just ERELs? Could they be making some sort of a cheaper product, materials and construction-wise in order to lower the cost?

In terms of the different EREL grades, I think most collectors agree that there are no known differences, even the prized Privat class.

The SS had two or more grades of cap. In the case of the army, I think there was only one grade. I think the products for the clothing cooperatives were of high quality versus the average, and not cut rate. There was a huge market in the so called Extramuetze, the private wear cap, in which the principals competed with each other, especially in the Berlin market. We have extracts of the army and air force clothing coop price lists here, somewhere. I have lived for a long time in Germany, and the place is famous for good clothing at a modest price for the average soul, and then there is now designer and haute couture things, but this luxury market in former times was limited to a small part of society. The Wehrmacht was distinguished by the opening of the officer corps to a large social group, who surely did not have the means for finery at court or among what was and is called the upper 10,000, what is today called the 1% in a different context.
So, this mass officer corps got clothing for the masses made both in an industrial manner, but also in an artisan way at a time in which tailoring was not so exclusive as it is today.

Read any serious history of the officer corps of the Wehrmacht, and consider that the Wehrmacht as a whole boasted some 16 million people en toto. In any case, my point, the Lubstein caps posted here by Mr. Mint are of the era of growth and power of the III. Reich in its expansion, at a time when the military grew enormously on a mass basis. No wonder that these Lubstein caps are seen so often.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Here in the SS Kleiderkasse list of 1940 you see little gradation.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

In any case, Mr. Mint's cap is very nice. You will bear with me that when collector group think in the year 2012 goes into its own realm of being self licking ice cream cone at odds with what actually unfolded in Germany prior to 1945, then I register my objection.
This place is also NOT the other site, with its customs, rules, hierarchy, tastes, and dogmas. Most of us left said place because of its brutal group think and horrid human relations.
We make sure that this place operates in search of the truth and with more or less free and equal reflection. As Frederick II said it best: jeder nach seiner Facon.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Here in the 1934 list for the SS, there are different classes of cap.

[Glenn66]

Personally I couldn't care less about the maker. If the cap looks good and more importantly is original then I would be happy to add it to my collection (price permitting of course).
The thread starter is one such gem in my opinion.