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04-01-2011, 11:28 PM
#471
Re: Muetzenfabrik
We are of the same mind FB. I'm just very aware that it's just the two of us of taking this forward, for the most part it seems.
I enjoy it all the same!
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04-01-2011 11:28 PM
# ADS
Circuit advertisement
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04-01-2011, 11:33 PM
#472
Re: Muetzenfabrik
I hope thats not true Ben, ive been trying to follow all that has been said here and trying hard to understand the complexities regarding the German cap industries and although it is a true minefield for most of us, im glad that you and FB are doggedly engaged in bringing this subject to light, i would dearly love to understand german in order that these documents become more clear to me, and its a great shame that noone has been able to devote the enormous time and patience to translate all that has been written on the subject, i think that would nearly take another lifetime, but just imagine if a be all and end all book be available to everyone, there would definately be fors and against mainly because of the ability of the modern day fakers, to have this resource open to them would lead to absolute chaos in the collecting market, but by all means you and FB carry on enlightening us ,its a privilage seeing two like minded people trying to gain knowledge and pass it on
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04-01-2011, 11:33 PM
#473
Re: Muetzenfabrik
by
BenVK
We are of the same mind FB. I'm just very aware that it's just the two of us of taking this forward, for the most part it seems.
The shouldering of the burden by you and me represents a form of sublime honor in my opinion. No where else in the whole firmament can such knowledge be gleaned, and I am especially impressed with how you wield the machines of the 21st century to forge the way ahead with this stuff. I am an old man, locked into obsolete habits. But I am an extremist when it comes to the tribute that historical study demands of us. My teachers made me work hard in my time, and I am more grateful now in my declining years for it. If some of this attitude poisons these pages, then, as in the case of Michael Kohlhass, "...I can do no other....."
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04-01-2011, 11:39 PM
#474
Re: Muetzenfabrik
by
davejb
I hope thats not true Ben, ive been trying to follow all that has been said here and trying hard to understand the complexities regarding the German cap industries and although it is a true minefield for most of us, im glad that you and FB are doggedly engaged in bringing this subject to light, i would dearly love to understand german in order that these documents become more clear to me, and its a great shame that noone has been able to devote the enormous time and patience to translate all that has been written on the subject, i think that would nearly take another lifetime, but just imagine if a be all and end all book be available to everyone, there would definately be fors and against mainly because of the ability of the modern day fakers, to have this resource open to them would lead to absolute chaos in the collecting market, but by all means you and FB carry on enlightening us ,its a privilage seeing two like minded people trying to gain knowledge and pass it on
Thanks for the kind words and your response signifies why we share our understanding (however flawed and limited) here with you. Might I also note that even if one translated all of these things, the fakers of today cannot reproduce the skill, nor the textiles, nor the machines, nor whole cosmos in which these things were made. Almost no one engages in the apprenticeships that formed the basis of this; the masters of the guilds and the master cap makers that we have described here, and, mostly, the people you see in these images are surely 99% all dead, or nearly so, and there world is gone. The fakes are almost always never as good.
Thanks for your response and thanks to Ben for his signal role in all of this. I am grateful to the handful of people interested in all of this and salute you.
It is un-British of me to be so abrupt and perhaps offensive about the others in my posts; and though my father was born in London, I was not; and I am not a gentleman by any means and fundamentally cannot be thus by manifest flaws of birth and temper. But I am a history teacher and very proud of same, which is a fault, too, mind you. You have also rendered me your student, for which I thank you.
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04-01-2011, 11:45 PM
#475
Re: Muetzenfabrik
by
davejb
I hope thats not true Ben, ive been trying to follow all that has been said here and trying hard to understand the complexities regarding the German cap industries and although it is a true minefield for most of us, im glad that you and FB are doggedly engaged in bringing this subject to light, i would dearly love to understand german in order that these documents become more clear to me, and its a great shame that noone has been able to devote the enormous time and patience to translate all that has been written on the subject, i think that would nearly take another lifetime, but just imagine if a be all and end all book be available to everyone, there would definately be fors and against mainly because of the ability of the modern day fakers, to have this resource open to them would lead to absolute chaos in the collecting market, but by all means you and FB carry on enlightening us ,its a privilage seeing two like minded people trying to gain knowledge and pass it on
Thanks indeed and gratitude for your continued interest and valued input.
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04-03-2011, 09:26 PM
#476
Re: Muetzenfabrik
Many collectors are of the oft-mistaken belief that the items in their collections were not the result of slave-labor or the camp-system. To the contrary, a great portion was. These pics are from the Lodz ghetto:
“Show me the regulation, and I’ll show you the exception.”
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04-03-2011, 09:30 PM
#477
Re: Muetzenfabrik
Most will recognize all sorts of Wehrmacht uniform parts and insignia in these pics.
A sobering testament indeed.
“Show me the regulation, and I’ll show you the exception.”
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04-03-2011, 09:35 PM
#478
Re: Muetzenfabrik
Donnerwetter and Bravo! Very interesting and, of course, pretty sickening images, but nothing we did not already know. My point: you cannot take politics out of these things, and the point of UM was Nazi ideology as applied to the textile trade in the years 1933-1939. The first goal was to drive Jews out of the textile trade in Berlin, and these images in the case of the Lodz ghetto was the rendering of subject populations an instrument of total war and a kind of homicidal political economy of a distinct kind. No riddle to it at all. I have cited the works on the SS economics system ad length, though these images are for Wehrmacht uniforms, surely. Thanks for your fine research and addition to our little colloquium.
Where did you find these images? Are they in the color series on Lodz/Litzmannstadt as had on the Life website in Google?
Thanks for the very enlightening additional Bildmaterial.
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04-03-2011, 11:13 PM
#479
Re: Muetzenfabrik
F-B, they are part of a collection of 300 photos taken (in color) by a German officer at the Lodz Ghetto. They are available at the Yad Vashem website. Should be mandatory viewing for all.
“Show me the regulation, and I’ll show you the exception.”
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04-03-2011, 11:27 PM
#480
Re: Muetzenfabrik
by
stonemint
F-B, they are part of a collection of 300 photos taken (in color) by a German officer at the Lodz Ghetto. They are available at the Yad Vashem website. Should be mandatory viewing for all.
Thanks so much, indeed. Much merit to having this material amid the other items here as regards the totality of the subject at hand. Thanks.
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