Possible SA Man's Kepi?

[jaeger]

Hey Thanks Bob! That really helps clarify the confusion I have had with the eagles. I guess it's good to see that there is plenty of conroversy over these light weight Kepis. It makes life interesting . One question I had was whether or not Kepis of this style were created for other units other than Suedmark? If these are fakes, were the fakers simply smart enough to pick Suedmark to be their target for their kepis? If these are fakes dating back to just after the war, would there have even been a need for the fakers to come up with the half way legitimate answer (the speed/requirements of the Anschluss) for why these Kepis were produced? Is this something that GI's would have even concerned themselves with in the 1950's? I would imagine that there would have been little need for the kind of questions we ask today. I honestly want to ask you guys what you think. If let's say a GI were looking at potentially purchasing one of these light weight Kepis at that time, would he have known or even thought about asking as to which Gruppe it was from or why it was of poorer quality, etc.? Would the vendor have even needed the story? This brings me to my next question. If GIs/initial purchasers of these hats weren't the wiser (again that's assuming if), then why didn't they just create a variety of Kepis of this style for other SA Gruppen? I am sure there would have been even more interest in and demand for Kepis that were from the various German Gruppen seeing as that's where most of these GI's were stationed during that time. I mean, they could have made up any story. For instance, they could have said that they were light weight Kepis used during summer time or that they were very early forms of Kepis that were used before the SA fully established itself, etc. Just let me know what you guys think, because these questions are still lingering in my mind.
Thanks!

[BOB COLEMAN]

Jaeger-
I believe you are over thinking this issue. 99.99% of American GI's, whether war time or occupation troops, would have no idea what a Gruppe color was. In many years of collecting, I have seen numerous odd items that were brought back as souvenirs. Items that were total fantasy or put together from various parts that did not match.

[jaeger]

In your opinion Bob, when and where were these Kepis made? Maybe I am overhtinking the issue, but I just can't get over why they would have only chosen Suedmark given that nearly noone would have known any better at the time. Why not just make the hat color blue... Blue is definitely more popular that reddish pink, right? Not trying to sound defensive or anything about this Kepi (it's obvious the workmanship isn't there). I just really wish we could all know once and for all about these things, because from what I understand, they surface every so often and plenty of others are just as curious about them.
Thanks!

Nick

[BOB COLEMAN]

Why are the top colors not striped or polka dot? Who knows. Possibly the kepis were made in Austria Show me a period picture of the poorly made kepis without the proper eagle taken in the period and I will accept their originality. Why is the front button pebbled when it should be a smooth finish? Because the wrong eagle and buttons were available to the fakers, that is why. If you want to believe in these caps, believe. I am giving you my thoughts based upon 52 years of serious collecting.
No proof of being used in the period and a total lack of standard construction, insignia and button. Frankly, I am through discussing these. If you want it to be real, let it be so.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Nick, the use of the pink material might be down to something as simple as it was what the fakers had available to them at the time. Trying to second guess these people is a nightmare.

I am not a political collector and I cannot offer an opinion on the cap for you. But if Bob says it is bad, well that would be enough for me if it were mine. But I realise you are curious about it.

Cheers, Ade.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

At the risk of me too ism, Bob Coleman is quite the authority on kepis. I also do think that there were fakes from an early moment, as well. Austria had a well established cap making infra structure, sorely in need of work in 1938 or so. It is also possible that one also had a contractor that played fast and loose with the regulations, as well. I have seen these flimsy caps in the olden days (1969) , too, and they never spoke to me, actually. Hence, Bob C is the final authority.

[texasuberalles]

I'll add my two cents worth to buttress the comments of Bob and F-B of the caps not being period.

There were several Hollywood and English motion pictures made in black and white before and during the war that included kepis in use. Often colors were picked by how the colors appeared on the black and white screen of the movies. With usage, storage and handling - plus they were actually procuced 60+ years ago - they seem to have an authentic appearence today.

As a personal note, I began collecting in the late 50's and I recall it was well into the 70's before I actually found a vet bring back kepi and he had three of them.

[texasuberalles]

I'll add my two cents worth to buttress the comments of Bob and F-B of the caps not being period.

Sorry, I should have said cap not caps. My comment above is directed only to the first cap pictured.

[jaeger]

Hey Bob, I hope I was not offending you by pressing the issue. I honestly did not want to come off in any way like that. Like I said, collecting of German headgear is fairly new to me and having come into possesion of one of these Kepis is just a point of curiousity to me. I've seen a few other threads on them but wanted to bring the issue up here and stir up the pot, so to say, in order to get everyone's opinions. I can sleep better at night knowing I at least threw a few questions out there that were bouncing around in my head . I am by no way asserting that these are original and obviously can't make that judgement without the evidence. Therefore, I'll leave it at that. I once again thank everyone for their comments (especially Bob) and definitely appreciate any others.
Thanks again!

Nick