A sad looking candidate for restoration?

[Jonathan Wenberg]

Hi all, Bought this cap as a project piece, unfortunately the seller used some very flattering camera angles on the listing so it's a little worse than expected. Yes, I know, it's a very sad piece, but I'm still very young and don't have the means for an awful lot better! (plus, I'm only in a very small amount on it so I don't really mind). I'm probably going to try my best to spruce her up a bit to avoid to much further degradation. Here are the pics:









Questions
-Could I re-blacken the visor with black shoe polish?
- What would the best way to repair the internal tear in the cap band be? Gluing a stiff thin cardboard patch over it to hold it together?
-How is the stiffener that holds up the crown attached? This one has collapsed and I'm not sure whether it's meant to be glued or stitched? And if so, to what?

Thanks in advance!

[Jonathan Wenberg]

Also advice on reshaping would be welcome! I've read both supporting and critical posts about the use of steam....

[ErWeSa]

Hi Jonathan,
treating the peak/visor with shoe polish is no good idea - I am afraid this would cause the rest of the varnish to go off. The only means to blacken it correctly would be to use black varnish - but then of course, it is no longer original.

Gluing is also no good idea, as many a cap has already been destroyed by glue. For the centerband cardbord stiffener sewing a patch of cardbord using the original holes could fix the tear.
The stiffener of the crown at the front normally was stapled to the centerband cardboard stiffener before the centerband was sewn on (so that the staples could not be seen), you could also try to fix it by stitching it, using the original holes of the upper seam of the centerband.

For reshaping try to get a suitable cap spring (or make a replacement, I use a thin steel wire rope the ends of which I join with a small metal tube), put it into the cap so that it fits tight, and then you can apply the steam - carefully. Don't put the cap too close to it, don't apply it too long. Put some paper into the cap and put it on a suitable form (a styrofoam/glass head for example). It should dry "at a good pace" not too quickly, not too slowly.

[danhashman]

When i read your title i thought it would be mucho worse, a moth eaten, torn up ruin.. But it is not so bad after all.. Restaurating this cap is gonna easy as parts are readly available, it´s gonna be fun, and it will look good at the end. I look forward to see it shine again, just give it some TLC.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Hi Jonathan,
treating the peak/visor with shoe polish is no good idea - I am afraid this would cause the rest of the varnish to go off. The only means to blacken it correctly would be to use black varnish - but then of course, it is no longer original.

Gluing is also no good idea, as many a cap has already been destroyed by glue. For the centerband cardbord stiffener sewing a patch of cardbord using the original holes could fix the tear.
The stiffener of the crown at the front normally was stapled to the centerband cardboard stiffener before the centerband was sewn on (so that the staples could not be seen), you could also try to fix it by stitching it, using the original holes of the upper seam of the centerband.

For reshaping try to get a suitable cap spring (or make a replacement, I use a thin steel wire rope the ends of which I join with a small metal tube), put it into the cap so that it fits tight, and then you can apply the steam - carefully. Don't put the cap too close to it, don't apply it too long. Put some paper into the cap and put it on a suitable form (a styrofoam/glass head for example). It should dry "at a good pace" not too quickly, not too slowly.

The words of our finest craftsman!

[Jonathan Wenberg]

Hi ErWeSa, Your observations are invaluable and much appreciated! I didn't mean to suggest any heresies when I talked about glue or shoe polish, it was simply my own ignorance - please forgive me! Would you suggest simply leaving the visor as it is instead of reapplying black varnish?

As far as sewing a patch of cardboard to fix the centreband tear is concerned, are these holes the original holes on the upper seam of the centreband - because I'm not sure which other holes you might refer to?

As regards the stiffener, many of the original holes of the upper seam of the centreband at the front have torn, so perhaps some kind of stapling might be the only option - would I need to attach both the spring and the stiff bit of hessian? (underneath the scissors in my picture)
Also, to sew the lining back together, would I need a hooked needle? It looks like it will be an awkward job.

Thanks again for your response!
Jonathan

[ErWeSa]

Hi ErWeSa, Your observations are invaluable and much appreciated! I didn't mean to suggest any heresies when I talked about glue or shoe polish, it was simply my own ignorance - please forgive me!

No need to apologize! I won't tell anybody what I did when I didn't have the experience of many years (much of which I gained in this wonderful forum!) of dealing with caps of all sorts.

Would you suggest simply leaving the visor as it is instead of reapplying black varnish?

Well, I know it doesn't look too attractive as it is, but yes - I'd leave it as it is, as it is a piece of history and the age it shows is authentic (who knows how we are going to look at 75 or so - no offence to those who are!).

As far as sewing a patch of cardboard to fix the centreband tear is concerned, are these holes the original holes on the upper seam of the centreband - because I'm not sure which other holes you might refer to?

Yes, these are the holes I was talking about - plus the holes of the seam at the bottom which you can't see, just the points where the tread disappears - you must feel with your needle where the hole is and try to get it precicely and straight through so that it comes out exactly where the original thread comes out, a tricky job!

As regards the stiffener, many of the original holes of the upper seam of the centreband at the front have torn, so perhaps some kind of stapling might be the only option - would I need to attach both the spring and the stiff bit of hessian? (underneath the scissors in my picture)
Also, to sew the lining back together, would I need a hooked needle? It looks like it will be an awkward job.

I was afraid that some the holes were torn, cardboard is not too robust when sewn. And yes, both the spring and the hessian must be attached. If you add the badges to the cap you can also try to sew this on with a few tiny stitches to the right and the left under the front seam of the cap so that you can avoid the original holes (see pic). When you then put the insigns on the cap, the stiches are no longer visible (just as the ventilation hole of the ErEl caps ). See here (this, by the way is a fake, but the method is original): https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/attac...utze-image.jpg



For sewing the lining back you won't need a curved needle (at least I have never used one).

Thanks again for your response!

Your're welcome!

By the way: the steaming treatment may have to be done more often than once (better to be careful and do it more often than to do damage to the cap by being impatient) and the cap spring must be rust-proof (as was prescribed for the original caps).
Jonathan

Good luck, and let us see your results!

[Jonathan Wenberg]

Hi Erwesa,

Thank you again for your detailed advice! Again, it is much appreciated and I wanted to try and get some trustworthy advice before doing anything hasty, even though this is a relatively common visor. As for the visor lacquer, I will likely leave it alone then, you are right about aging gracefully! Thankfully it is probably the easiest part of this job so no need to pay much attention to it at this stage.

Thank you for the source image regarding the stitches to be obscured by the police eagle! I think I'm going to need a VERY sharp needle. On the off chance, you wouldn't happen to have a picture of the stiffener attached as it should usually be (as a source of inspiration to me)! I know that's probably an unusual ask, but I'd be appreciative if you did happen to have one! Otherwise, it seems that the buckram and stiffener with spring should be secured by two thick stitches at their base?

Once again, thanks for your response. It may take a little while for me to source original insignia at an affordable price, but I will be sure to post the completed outcome of my endeavours when I get the time (and a break from schoolwork)!

Jonathan

[António Fragoeiro]

Hi all, Bought this cap as a project piece, unfortunately the seller used some very flattering camera angles on the listing so it's a little worse than expected. Yes, I know, it's a very sad piece, but I'm still very young and don't have the means for an awful lot better! (plus, I'm only in a very small amount on it so I don't really mind). I'm probably going to try my best to spruce her up a bit to avoid to much further degradation. Here are the pics:









Questions
-Could I re-blacken the visor with black shoe polish?
- What would the best way to repair the internal tear in the cap band be? Gluing a stiff thin cardboard patch over it to hold it together?
-How is the stiffener that holds up the crown attached? This one has collapsed and I'm not sure whether it's meant to be glued or stitched? And if so, to what?

Thanks in advance!

Its not the worse iv seen.
If you try harder and do it correctly, is going to look nice.

Regards
António

[ErWeSa]

Hi Erwesa,

Thank you again for your detailed advice! Again, it is much appreciated and I wanted to try and get some trustworthy advice before doing anything hasty, even though this is a relatively common visor. As for the visor lacquer, I will likely leave it alone then, you are right about aging gracefully! Thankfully it is probably the easiest part of this job so no need to pay much attention to it at this stage.

Thank you for the source image regarding the stitches to be obscured by the police eagle! I think I'm going to need a VERY sharp needle. On the off chance, you wouldn't happen to have a picture of the stiffener attached as it should usually be (as a source of inspiration to me)! I know that's probably an unusual ask, but I'd be appreciative if you did happen to have one! Otherwise, it seems that the buckram and stiffener with spring should be secured by two thick stitches at their base?

Once again, thanks for your response. It may take a little while for me to source original insignia at an affordable price, but I will be sure to post the completed outcome of my endeavours when I get the time (and a break from schoolwork)!

Jonathan

I was looking through the two period sources of cap making (Hempe and Prediger). They both only state that the stiffener has to be fixed tightly to the (cardboard) stiffener of the centerband without stating how this has to be done.

The first picture is shown in the link of post # 7, the second stems from here: Alteste Berliner Fakes
Although these are fakes, the method of stapling is as it was (only that the staples in the second picture, the Älteste Berliner.... fake, can be seen on the outside of the cap which was not the case in original caps).


and here is the requested original (two massive staples wich cannot be seen from the outside):



And here another method: 2 stiches crosswise which are hidden under the badge :
https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/attac...81763p1596.jpg