Do these 2 GESTAPO disks look authentic?

[Matt L]

Well I don't know what you're meaning by 'shoulder cap' or about the feather line- I just shrunk the auction image to the exact size of Don's original and superimposed them and switching back and forth I see nothing like what you're describing; maybe draw some arrows or something on the image and post it so we can understand exactly what you think is there and not there? I do now note that the head is flatter on the original as are the shoulders, the first row of feathers are narrower and the toes are flatter too on the orignial- there's a definite difference. The head is 'taller', the shoulders more round, and the first feathers wider and the toes fatter on the auction piece. The rest of the details still look the same. Now of course we have to ask were there multiple dies at all; given the surely relatively small numbers of Gestapo discs that were made, I'd be surprised if they had more than one manufacturer or needed more than one set of dies. And if there weren't or it can't be shown there were, then all real discs must therefore be identical and any variation, however small, is a real problem...

Look at the site Ade already posted a link to Nick.

[Wagriff]

Matt, I took the photo of both the original on Don's page and the posted disk and pointed out the differences I was speaking of. The bottom of the "O" is particularly different, and hopefully, this should show you what I was pointing out as the shoulder cap-the Raised area inside the red. And on the posted eagle at 3:O'clock on it's chest, there is just a dent, but on the original, there is a raised edge of the feather there-I drew a red circle around it to make it more clear.

[Matt L]

Ah, okay, further down is a better photo of that original, 301, in the section titled " "Gestapo" discs...fake and real !", that shows what you see as 'caps' is just the the light reflecting off the piece, not actual raised section on the shoulders. And that bit on the chest isn't different using the better picture either; I just repeated the superimposed flipping back and forth and I see no discernable difference- some wear, but the form is the same.

And doing the same to the back, I now see there are small differences in the serif bits of the top of the G, and the S- I'll post a picture of it shortly. The rest of the letters are very close and what might appear as a difference in the lower portion of the 'O' looks to me like light again on the auction piece- making it look ever so slightly thicker. But I do see the angle of the two photos is slightly different, making all the letters look a little different on comparison, so it's harder to take some perceived differences as real; the two I've found are definitely not affected by view though.

Here they are: this is the auction piece, with small crops from Don's original (the gray ones) in place for easy comparison. The original from Don's site is rather more smooth on that upper edge, whereas the auction one has a definite cut in the upper edge. I also indicated the issue with the 'O' and where the same edge is obscured by lighting on other letters in that row.



Now I did look at the 'differences' I saw yesterday when comparing the photos superimposed atop one another and I'm no longer sure they're not just a result of different lighting and the slight angle difference in the photos- it's really tough to tell; given how extremely tiny the variation is, I'm now wondering if they really are there...

[Wagriff]

My opinion? They're both not good. When it comes to a matter of spending thousands of dollars on an item, if there's any question of it not being right, then you generally pass on it. Almost a half a century in the hobby and I wouldn't want either of these in my collection. 'Nuff said.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Both items would not be for me either.

Cheers, Ade.

[Matt L]

Yup- it's not reasonable to say good or bad given the incomplete information we have, however it's only prudent to pass on expensive items that don't conform fully to a known example without explanation. There may be some reason to believe these are real- the auction house is a very reputable one so surely consulted experts themselves- however from what we here can see, there are questions to be sure.

[JohnDrakeMI6]

I wish I could see these two GESTAPO and Kripo badges up close, but form the photos, they BOTH look authentic. I know cause I studied these and have some of my own. They are rare, but can be purchased on occasion, if you can locate some. I am former law enforcement and have quite a background in detecting counterfeits of other U.S. documents, passports, birth certificates, etc...This is merely a "hobbie" of mine and very restricted to just these types of German WWII badges/discs and only a few U.S. Badges. Don Bible is still the authority on the subject and has written some wonderful books on these cook badges. Email me so we can talk further. Thanks!

[Scout]

Welcome to the forum, buddy.
You might want to remove your email address, so you dont get loads of unwanted spam.

[JohnDrakeMI6]

They look real to me and I have two of them. One Gestapo and the other a Kripo. I am curious what auction house in Germany and what the going prices are now days? I've seen better and have also bought some "counterfeits" as well to tell the difference. You will appreciate the originals as they are very clear, cut and dynamic compared to the "counterfeits". I am also a L.E. badge collector of sorts. Let me know what you find out. I am still in the market for another good Gestapo Disc.

[CARL]

Welcome to the forum JohnDrakeMI6, would you care to share some images of your original examples with us?

Regards,

Carl