Fake Test

[gooseandspoons]

what are some good text to read about German ID tags?

[Matt L]

Jean Höidal's book is decent, but that's about it; there's another by a guy named Burroughs, but his first offering years ago- a small softcover thing- had many times more falsehoods than actual facts, and there were precious few of those, that I don't expect his newer book to be of any use at all. Really because Erkennungsmarken are so varied in their nature, no book is going to be able to teach you the subject- it's mainly just a matter of looking at thousands of examples, and as importantly learning all you can about the unit structures of the Wehrmacht. Generally, I'd recommend getting opinions before buying anything that's not just some regular army unit- those aren't commonly faked so are usually safe. But no HG, Falli, and NO SS without asking advice most definitely.

[gooseandspoons]

is there a roster or something that you could link the tag to the persons name
i remember when i bought it i paid $200 for it and i was 10 years old at the time. That money was from chores or some BS like that.

[Matt L]

Oh bummer- I thought you meant you just got it. 10 years is a bit long a time to get your money back. The trouble with discs is often enough sellers have no idea what they have is bad- dealers can't be experts in everything and particularly with Erkennungsmarken, one really has to be quite expert to know good from bad.

And no service records are all private information- they're only available to family. But in this case there wouldn't be anything anyway since the disc isn't real.

[gooseandspoons]

well matt i truely have to say i'm a little more educated now, thanks.
what about the numeral 1, would that be a give away for fake disc

[Matt L]

You bet- it's usually better to know one way or the other rather than always wondering, but it stinks when the news is bad.

Do you mean that the '1' has no foot? If so, no, they could be like that on real discs too; in truth the vast, vast majority of real text is serif and a mix of upper and lower case letters, so if one sees sans serif, all capitols, that should be a caution sign since a large percentage of fake discs use capitol, sans serif letters- but it's not a definite thing.

Really the main types of ways of recognizing fakes are circumstantial- since the only true way is to match a fake font, recognize that a unit didn't exist or the nomenclature is completely wrong, or to have images of an absolutely authentic example to compare (which is hard since as I mentioned elsewhere, often even different Kompanien in the same Bataillon or Regiment had different stamps). Usually it's an accumulation of circumstantial evidence that says 'no, it's likely bad' or 'yes, it's worth the risk as it may well be real', when one is considering a purchase.

So any further thoughts from anyone about why the 'SS-Panzer' disc I posted is bad? I'll give the answer later today so as not to keep everyone in suspense forever, but I'd be curious to see if anyone can figure it out.

[Jan]

How common were blood group markings on SS discs?? This one doesnt have one?

Rgds Jan

[Matt L]

Well, while it is true that some SS men had their blood group tattooed on the inside of their (left?) arms, there are lots of SS discs with a group letter stamped on them suggesting that it at least wasn't considered redundant; I suspect the tattoo was really rather uncommon, particularly with the Waffen-SS.

No blood group letter, if the unit can be shown to have only existed after mid-1941, when it's suggested the practice of marking the disc with the letter(s) began, would be odd if it's an Ersatz unit and the Stammrollennumer not extremely high; this one, for example, would be strange since surely more than 770+ men went through it during the course of the war. That being said, sometimes letters were stamped on the reverse or were small and light so as not to be immediatly visible on discs with less-than-perfect surfaces like this one- so not seeing it here in this case isn't necessarily a problem.

That isn't the issue here though- the problem is quite clear. Were there no other obvious issues, or were the issues minor and thus one needed to look at every aspect possible, it would be prudent to ask a seller for a photo of the back and if there is a blood group letter that's not easy to see.

It's a good try Jan, but that's not the answer

[Matt L]

Actually, I didn't realize it before, although I probably did when I saved this image for use as a font recognition piece (since any other disc with the exact same letters is a fake too), but there are TWO significant and obvious problems that conclusively show this disc is bad. One is the specific easy thing to spot I wanted to show and the other is a good example of a second way that's common as well.

So you have two things to choose from as the 'correct' answers.

[Jan]

Theres something with thw corrosion, whats the material of the disc :// damn it. Is it possible to get an enlargement. Don´t like the holes either...

Jan