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Fine Erkennungsmarke I.R.323 (218 infanterie-division)

Article about: I'd like to share this recently bought ID disc from the Courland (Kurland) front. I've had some good feedback from moderators and experienced users on my collection and am looking for any fe

  1. #1

    Default Fine Erkennungsmarke I.R.323 (218 infanterie-division)

    I'd like to share this recently bought ID disc from the Courland (Kurland) front.

    I've had some good feedback from moderators and experienced users on my collection and am looking for any feedback comments about this tag.

    Fine Erkennungsmarke I.R.323   (218 infanterie-division)
    Fine Erkennungsmarke I.R.323   (218 infanterie-division)
    Fine Erkennungsmarke I.R.323   (218 infanterie-division)

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  3. #2

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    The only comment I have is that the font of the '2' is the same on both the regiment number and the stammrollen number. As I recall, generally the stammrollen number would be stamped at a later date (upon issue) and would therefore be expected to be from a different stamp set.

    I invite other members to comment with their thoughts on this issue.

  4. #3

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    Hi Glenn,

    I have seen the regiment and stammrollen fonts similar in several discs here and other collections of excellent erkennungsmarkes. Why do you suppose they were issued with same font type.

    Quote by Glenn66 View Post
    The only comment I have is that the font of the '2' is the same on both the regiment number and the stammrollen number. As I recall, generally the stammrollen number would be stamped at a later date (upon issue) and would therefore be expected to be from a different stamp set.

    I invite other members to comment with their thoughts on this issue.

  5. #4

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    Hello to all.
    The erkennungsmarke is certainly false because, unfortunately, I've purchased one also equal as markennummer.
    I've got also another of the same military unit, 7 Kompanie, with different typefaces.
    In general I think it's better to have the regiment number and the number stammrollen with different typefaces. But I will certainly have several originals with the same typefaces, also noted on its Soldbuch or Wehrpass.
    Giovanni

    Fine Erkennungsmarke I.R.323   (218 infanterie-division)Fine Erkennungsmarke I.R.323   (218 infanterie-division)

  6. #5

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    Gianni,

    Good pictures. You haven't demonstrated how IR 323 is counterfeit. We are discussing samples with the same typefaces and how the stammrollen number font on one number is the same as the regiment font. It is unfortunate you have purchased a 'fake' tag.

    You have posted ID discs for two different types of regiments in your samples.
    J.R. is light rifle unit in a regiment also at time a machine gun regiment and I.R. an infantry regiment.

    Do you have a picture of
    Quote by gianni59 View Post
    Hello to all.
    The erkennungsmarke is certainly false because, unfortunately, I've purchased one also equal as markennummer.
    Regards,
    Last edited by Wiegand; 12-08-2016 at 08:13 PM.

  7. #6

    Default

    Double post

  8. #7

    Default

    Quote by Wiegand View Post
    J.R. is light rifle unit in a regiment also at time a machine gun regiment and I.R. an infantry regiment.
    Both tags are purporting to be from the same regiment. The 'JR' and 'IR' are both acceptable signifiers for an infantry regiment. Only the company numbers are different and yes, 12th company was generally an MG company in the earlier war years before regiment sizes began to shrink.

    Not being a Pnz Gren designation and also not being an Ersatz disc indicates pre war regiment mobilisation. Wiegand, what does your research tell you about the date of incorporation of rgt 323?

  9. #8

    Default

    I think the JR convention was prevalent in the later years of formation i.e. '38 -> '43.

    And yes, 4, 8, and 12th companies are generally machine gun companies in all Wehrmacht infantry regiments. However, I don't think that applied to Waffen units. Regardless, you are correct about JR and IR signifiers.


    323 was constituted August 1939 as a regiment of the 218th Division. It remained engaged until April '45 in Kurland where it surrendered. The region my identity disc was posted from.

  10. #9

    Default

    In my understanding, it was not uncommon for different companies to have different stamp sets for erkennungsmarken.

    Using the same stamp for the regiment and stammrollen number is unusual but not a deal breaker IMO. I would be comfortable with the kompanie 12 disc if it were offered to me.

  11. #10

    Default

    I too have seen some conventions where the stampings are same for regiment and stammrollen, but agree it is not common.

    It is reassuring you endorse 12th company disc. It was recently purchased for my collection looking for Kurland pocket regiment holdout during their siege by the circling Russian forces. I ask these questions in this forum for feedback by experienced collectors like yourself.

    Would you let me know if you know of any discs which are stamped like this one.

    Thanks Glenn.

    /W

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