K.L. erkennungsmarken

[Gazal Al Shaqab]

Hello,
Still I keep on reading and learning on this excellent forum !
I would like to ask the specialists here what they think about those KL EKM.
The pictures come from DIFFERENT places on internet (auctions, Militaria dealers, here and there), I just put them together.
I wonder if they are likely to be real or rather not (is there any way to know for sure with those two types anyway ?).
Thanks very much in advance for opinions.
Salutations !

[Matt L]

Hi Gazal,

It's quite difficult to authenticate these- one really has to have 100% provably authentic examples to compare to. I've seen #1886 from the first group posted on a metal detectorist website and in general it looks overall realistic to me- but then that's simply based on positive features like the corrosion, the blood group letter being quite different than the main text, etc. and experience; nothing that's clearly provable. If it's a fake, it's an incredibly well-made one.

You'll notice that #2111 appears to be the same, while the first three are in fact different; most easily seen in the shape of the 'S' in 'Stuba'- note how the serif ends are smaller on the first three- and the top of the 'A' is shorter as well.

Given that #1886 looks believable to me, and none of the first three has anything that I find particularly realistic AND they're different, I'm inclined to suspect they're fakes, made trying to emulate the real one but not quite getting there- OR, since their roll numbers are all smaller, they're an initial form and for some reason the large curved stamp was changed between #1701 and #1886.

One thing that is odd though is that on the later two, there is a blood group letter but not on any of the 'earlier' ones. Surely if #2111 was issued, those were too. It could be that they pre-dated the inclusion of a blood group letter on discs (i.e. pre mid-1941) though.

Unfortunately, I've never seen one from the second group that I had any reason to believe is real so I can't say much about them. There's nothing that arouses immediate suspicion, apart from what they purport to be- which should always make one wary. Only knowing what they should look like, or, if they're fakes, being aware of the type, would provide any real answers.

[Gazal Al Shaqab]

Hi Matt,
Thank You, as always precise !
Yeah, I see the difference now between the first three end the two others : the "S" is clearly more "serifed", and the top of the "A"…
Even if all of them appear to be "one-stamped" (the numbers excluded).

But I am aware that it is impossible to tell for sure, all these are just some leads.

The Neuengamme's : same thing, I know, impossible to tell because there is nothing 100% certain to compare with…

Big thanks anyway !

Maybe some other users have seen any of these types coming straight from the ground ? I am "fishing" for opinions

[Matt L]

I just noticed too that those first three have some dots in some places and not in others- so even they're not the same as one another; the 'original' has them all where they should be- so that's even more of a problem.

[Gazal Al Shaqab]

Yes, the dots are different.
And, on the number 714, I do not even see ANY dots…

I assume that the correct way of putting dots here were be : dots everywhere, except after "SS" and "Auschwitz".

Thanks !

[Matt L]

Well that would be true if the one that seems real to me indeed is.

And no problem

[HxCMDP]

Hello all; I know it's kind of late, but i only see this thread now, so this might be helpfull for someone in the future, I have a ground found Neuengamme EKM from a digger who has been digging for over 10 years near Halbe (Germany) and next to the Polish Border. I have these 2 tags he personally found. He gave me a 100% guarantee; not good money back warranty. He has the documents and searching spots of all the places he went digging in the past. Greetings, Matthias

[Gazal Al Shaqab]

Hello HxCMDP, thank You very much for the information, it is never too late
So, the NEUENGAMME could be real after all… If it comes from a "sure" digger friend of Yours…
Anyway, it is the only type of Neuengamme EKM that I have ever seen on picture, so there is not much to compare to.
The only thing that bothers me just a little is that there are often the numbers "7" and "2" on them (I mean on those from the pictures) – not always, but there is or the "7" or the "2" each time.
(the second one, Gendarmerie Ausb. Abt. Adlerhorst, is a well known original for sure, a lot of them came out from Hela in PL, I read).
Thanx for the pictures !
G.

[HxCMDP]

No problem sir, yes i'm quite confident; the reasons for the numbers you say; i have no idea; I just saw the one on this thread and that's it; never saw one before. It's always difficult to authenticate these; i also have a KL Gross Rosen I posted before (on antother forum I think); reactions were the same; it looks good; no suspicion,printing and lettering is okay etc...but there is just nothing to compare; so if i see ekm's that are quite interesting; I will always post them here so maybe one day, someone can use the info and we might find one that is the same or similar. I will post my gross rosen tag here also! I can not post the back, because it's taped to a carton because it's broken in several places.



greetings,
Matthias

[meskalin]

Hello. So in my opinion the following brands are not good.

All brands from KL Neuengamme !

In the following brands Auschwitz copies are :

- 1701
- 714
- 761
in the other two images that are too bad.