on this Panzer ID disc!!!!

[don_kihotis7]

Hello guys i have purchased this disc from ebay 5-6 months ago. I got some pics of it in order to get opinions for authenticity. I paste below the description given for the item by the seller:
''This original aluminium WWII German identity tag is made out for a man in the Command Kompanie of the 7th Panzer Division. His stammroll (roll number) was 5 and his blood group was O. The 7th Panzer Division was a German elite armored formation which participated in the Battle of France. General Erwin Rommel commanded the division, which was nicknamed the "Ghost Division" because of its speed and independent movement, which even the German High Command had difficulty following. After service in France, the division served mainly on the Eastern Front, where it was commanded by General Manteuffel, ending its days in the defense of Germany and surrendering to the British army north west of Berlin in 1945.''
Thanks in advance.

[Matt L]

I don't have a good feeling about this one I'm afraid donkihotis- primarily because the blood group 'O' is the same as the 'O' in 'KDO', which is a problem because blood groups didn't start being put on Erkennungsmarken until sometime in mid-1941, yet with such a low Stammrollennummer, this man must have been serving with the Division before the war started. If the disc were made in 1939 at the latest, and the blood group letter put on two years later, it's pretty unlikely the exact same stamp set would be used; most of the time on regular wartime discs the blood group letter is different because it was only added by the unit after a man joined and was tested, while the disc was made previously.

It's also a famous unit, and what would be an incredibly rare disc- from the Division-Kommando- both make it a prime candidate for faking; I've only seen four or five Division-Kommando discs in 10 years of collecting and both from simple Infanterie-Divisionen (of which there were hundreds). There's also one further problem- while there are dots after the abbreviations, there isn't one after the '7'; in German, a dot after a number specifically indicates what in English we indicate by 'th' or 'rd', etc.- i.e., '7th' in German is specifically '7.', and that's the proper way it should be on an Erkennungsmarke. Of course the maker could have just missed it twice, but that's hard to believe since he remembered all the others, and taken with the issue of the blood group letter, is troubling.

It's a shame you bought it so long ago- unless the seller gave you a lifetime guarantee with matching return policy- because I, myself, wouldn't keep it...

[Glenn66]

Also there is no discernable wear on the neck cord holes which I would expect to see on a tag that has supposedly seen such long service.

[don_kihotis7]

Hi guys. Thanks for the replies, even though the news were bad. I have quite ebay buys because of the too many fakes. That one was one of my last purchases. Unfortunately i hadn't discovered the forum back then so i couldn't check it. It was suspicious to me the fact that it was a disc from a very desirable unit. The ghost division is very famous for it's achievements and especially because it was under Rommel's command, who is also a very popular personality.
I had checked the seller's other items and there were a few period magazines and books. It seemed normal to have an original disc since he had other original stuff. If he had some weird and suspicious EKs or other known fake awards i would have avoided it.
It was good that i finally found out about it's authenticity as it was troubling my mind.
Unfortunately after all this time it's impossible to claim anything back. It cost me $61 in an auction style purchase.

[Glenn66]

Maybe put it back on ebay and a reenactor might buy it? probably not for $61 but it's better than going in the trash.

[Matt L]

The lack of wear and age are indeed a bit odd, although in my experience command discs are often pretty lacking in wear; I wondered if they may not have been worn constantly- as if higher officers, if that's whose discs they were, didn't wear them on cords but maybe kept them in their Soldbuch (there is a flap for the disc), or just in a pocket or something instead of on a cord. Or more generally that they weren't in action long but went back for a staff job someplace so didn't need to carry it at all or some such thing; so there are reasons why wear might not be present on what's supposed to be a disc that was held for a long time. This one's pretty clean though.

It's a bummer to have your suspicions agreed-with donkihotis, but if you were already wondering I suppose it's better to be as sure as you can be either way; I wouldn't want to always wonder myself. Unfortunately the trouble with Erkennungsmarken is that few people know how to authenticate them so even totally trustworthy sellers and dealers can have them without knowing. They're a specialty all to themselves so the general 'expert' on WWII German stuff probably can't do Erkennungsmarken well enough to spot more than the obvious fakes.

You needn't quit using ebaY altogether though, but rather seek opinions before buying- there are always folks here willing to help out It's advisable with any purchase these days it seems...

[don_kihotis7]

Hi guys, sorry for my late response but i was away all day.
Matt, since the day i discovered this forum i always check on everything prior purchasing. This way i have saved a lot of cash and trouble. I'd rather buy from this and other forum's market places instead of ebay, ioffer etc. 90% in those websites are fakes and when you find something good the price gets very high as amateurs get excited and bid over and over again. The only problem is that forums don't have feedback ratings so a lot of members lack of professionalism. After payment many members/sellers become hard to find. I had an item once shipped 18 days after payment