POW Tag

[Matt L]

Strange- in all the time I've studied/collected Erkennungsmarken you're the only person I've ever met who has more than a passing interest in them so I'd have expected the market, and values, to be rather too small to bother with faking.

[skypilot]

There are databases available - I have access to Commonwealth PoW's for RAF (and associates); RN & Army for the European camps however the databases are filed by name and not by PoW number which means a manual search!

For info, Stalag XVIIa shows records for 1,097 British army PoW's - therefore it will take me a while to search them! This figure would not include any RAF/RN personnel or foreign service nationals.

Also, the tags could well have belonged to US personnel who would fall outside of the databases I have access to.

The International Red Cross may be able to help if you drop them an email.

[kindzjal]

Strange- in all the time I've studied/collected Erkennungsmarken you're the only person I've ever met who has more than a passing interest in them so I'd have expected the market, and values, to be rather too small to bother with faking.

I will look in my collection for an example of a false stalag dog tag.
Let me tell You that there are two groups of well known fakers only in Silesia. Here an example of what they are producing and selling:

[

[A.J. Zawadzki]

My gut sense would agree with Matt that the market for these is small and returns not worth the bother of faking. But in this hobby I’ve slowly learned to expect the unexpected when it comes to the activities of the thieves and counterfeiters.

Kindzjal, you seem to be quite knowledgeable on this topic. I’m hoping you or others may have some answers for this tag / photo set acquired just a couple of weeks ago. Spotting this thread offers a timely opportunity to get some questions in.

These items accompanied a rarely seen variant of the Polish Cross of Valour that had been on my want list, and it was the cross I was after. I suspect that this was just some items cobbled together for sale, although I have no way of knowing if there’s a legitimate connection between them.

Anyway, as has been the case with past ‘unintentional’ acquisitions, I’m set off on a tangent trying to learn some new things. The prisoner number 1882 matches the tag, but has been added afterwards as you can see. Knowing virtually nothing about the tags I wonder if this is unusual. Perhaps a replacement tag for one that was lost in the period? It appears to be a period alteration, but then again . . .

The 4-digit number seems quite low, maybe indicating a prisoner (air force by the tunic pattern) taken during the September 1939 campaign - ?

The back of the typical POW issue photo is marked with what appears to be “Droszcz”, perhaps the surname of the prisoner - ? Were such ‘mug shots’ typically marked on the reverse with the prisoner name?

Both the tag and photo were tucked into a small yellowed celluloid envelope that appears made to fit the tag. Could this be an item issued with the tag (seems improbable), or something made by the prisoner?

Regards,
Tony

[kindzjal]

Hello,

Your lot is OK.
And indeed the celluloid envelope was issued to the POW's together with the Stalag/Oflag dog tags. I've seen many lot's like that.
Here's my little Oflag IIA lot (without a photo):



Bestreg,

kindzjal

[A.J. Zawadzki]

Thanks kindzjal

I'm surprised that the celluloid packet is original to the piece. I would have expected only the tag and some twine being issued.

Thanks for the pics of your Oflag IIA lot. Interesting to see the certificate, and of a relatively late date for a September Campaign POW. Did this accompany the tag, or was it for another purpose? (I cannot read German)

Regards,
Tony

[kindzjal]

No problem.

The certificate was not attached to the dog tag.
I believe that it was given to the POW's so that they could send it to the Red Cross or to their relatives at home for some official purposes.
It's allways a short story saying that the Polish prissoner of war, Mr X is held at Oflag X.
It seems that most of those certificates were given in 1940.
Here another example out of my collection:

[A.J. Zawadzki]

Thanks for clearing that up kindzjal. Thanks also for sharing your other example You may want to start up a thread on Polish POW items in the Polish section of the forum. It's an interesting area of collecting not yet covered there.

Best,
Tony

[kindzjal]

Who knows, maybe I'll do that...
But first as I promissed an example of a fake Stalag dog tag:

Original:



Fake:



Bestreg,

kindzjal

[A.J. Zawadzki]

Again, it’s surprising that someone went to the trouble of producing fakes of these, other than maybe for reenactment purposes. Although I am entirely unaware of the market for genuine German issue POW tags. But as with everything else WW2 there’s a collector interest and no doubt other enthusiasts besides yourself.

Regarding the fake example you posted, another thing that astounds me with counterfeits is the effort taken to replicate the many details only to carelessly blow it with one. For example, that tag appears to have the correct cut and perforations, the lettering to “Stalag IIIC” is just about bang on, the ageing looks convincing, and then they foul up it up with the application of the serial number. There’s always a giveaway.

Cheers,
Tony