185th Pursuit Squadron Patch

[Croix de Guerre]

HEY MARK! Did this come from "you-know-who"?

[Steven M]

https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/aviat...section-15832/

Hey guys, take a look at posts 1 and 4 of the above thread. This patch reminds looks to be of the same level of skill with the same type perfectly symmetrical construction. Granted, I am still learning about these patches, but something about it just doesn't seem right for the period to me. Perhaps it is my inexperience in this area that makes me uncomfortable.

[trenchbuff]

These modern balloon patches have popped up all over the place. Even out here in Montana. I picked one up to have as an example of a fake. Side by side, they aren't even close. The materials, stitching and construction are completely different.

[trenchbuff]

Here is a comparison of three 1st Army AS patches side by side. The first is a known original which came directly from the family of balloon observer Paul Neibling. The middle is a widely accepted fake. On the right is the 185th patch. All three are die cut and very symmetrical. Neither the Neibling or 185th has the cross line in the A. Unfortunately, I can't get good enough close-ups of the stitching to show any detail. All three were machine stitched. However, the stitching on Neibling's and the 185th are most similar. One other detail of interest is the construction of the cockades. The blue portion overlaps the white on Neibling's and the 185th, giving them a neater appearance. On the fake, the white overlaps the blue. In the photo, all three patches seem pretty similar except that Neiblings patch shows natural fading from being worn on jacket. What the camera can't detect is just how crisp the fake patch is compared to the other two. Even though the 185th patch was stored in a pocket, out of the sun, it still shows age. Bottom line though, a good faker can overcome all those things and the only real assurance a collector has is period photographic evidence and solid provenance. What a minefield collecting can be!

[jcg82nd]

Here is another example of a 185th patch I found a few months ago.

John

[trenchbuff]

Very interesting patch John! Any background info?

[jcg82nd]

Unfortunately I don't have any background info, but the patch looks to be original.

John

[Chris L]

I had thought any squadron patches were only applied in the 20's and not 1919 during occupation duties. I didnt think Aero Squadron insignia was ever worn on anything except the pins pilots wore on their uniforms. Was I off on this?

[Skyspy12thaero]

Chris,
There are several squadrons that wore squadron patches. Ones that I can name off the top of my head are the 90th Aero's pair of dice, the 13th Aero with the reaper in the bottom of the 1st Army patch. I know there are several others I have seen. I posted an example of a 163rd squadron insignia direct embroidered into a summer weight uniform. The air service insignia field has never been fully researched and I hope one day someone can comprehensively cover it. Paul

[Chris L]

Hi Paul!

Sorry for the late response!

I didnt know that! I was under the assumption that any aviation patch with squadron insignia was a post war production (either 20s or later) I didnt realize there were guys in 1919 that had patches.