recognizes "liar" german ace?

**Matt L** · 06-09-2014, 05:19 AM

by another ant

Attachment 654617
font: Fighter Pilot: The First American Ace of World War II by William R. Dunn

time ago I read the same in another book I forget which (only the marked in yellow) did not mention the name of the "liar" but these three names are shuffled

Erich Hartmann
Wilhelm Balthasar
Werner Mölders

anyone knows anything about this story? and who was it this "liar"?

Does this Dunn guy bother to reference where he heard this 'story'? It seems pretty odd to me- I mean to suggest anyone would be so dim as to claim 3 victories and not fire his weapons is kind of hard to believe without some serious proof LOL The guy would have to be REALLY dumb.

Dunn might be a little more credible if the way he's writing doesn't immediatly smack of sour grapes- suggesting German aces didn't care about their wingmen, who apparently were shot down in droves, and him doubting 13 victories would be possible because of ficticious data- if it was a '109F, for example, 13 would get a simple average of nearly 2 seconds of firing time each, not one, and that could be as many as 77 rounds of mixed 7,92mm bullets (including AP, and incendiary), and a whopping 15 HE, HEI, API, etc. 2cm shells- not a small amount by any reckoning. So this nameless 'ace' story I find really rather doubtful LOL

**Glenn66** · 06-09-2014, 07:49 AM

I recall reading somewhere that in the closing months of the war in the Italian theatre, due to overwhelming Allied air superiority and the demands from 'higher up' to do something about it, that German pilots would often be prone to simply firing off all their ammo into thin air and return to base telling of dogfights that didn't happen.

A more plausible story than claiming victories without ammo expenditure methinks.

**BobS** · 06-09-2014, 08:59 PM

by another ant

Returning to the question of the thread
I found the other book that I read this story is:

ME 109: willy messerschmitt's peerless fighter by Martin Caidin

he does reference to the wing commander of the RAF Asher Lee book ,talks about the incident that started the thread, and that the pilot in question was later relayed to a post of counselor (the three names he say are Moelders, Wick and Marseille)

by the clues can only be:

Attachment 655483

I would not attach a lot of credence to the very oudated books by Martin Caidin. Also, the " post of counselor" makes no sense being applied to Werner Molders. He would be among the very last pilots I would suspect of padding his score.
Molders, of course, rose to become the first General of Fighters, until he was killed in a flying accident, as a passenger, on the way to Ernst Udet's funeral in November, 1941.
A devout Catholic, Molders was torn between his religion, and serving a regime he disliked, as a loyal German soldier.
His early death solved may what have become an intolerable situation for him, and his superiors.

BobS

**another ant** · 06-09-2014, 11:16 PM

looking out there I found this

in the battle of britain, He count shotdowns in one day of three in three in the Russian campaign He count five in five for why, him away of warfront?

Aces of the Luftwaffe - Werner Mölders

also go the other German aces