Order of red banner check

**Matthew1998** · 09-25-2019, 02:19 AM

First, thank u all for ur help. I realize I am not good at order identification, and my only reference is from ОРДЕНА И МЕДАЛИ СССР. Do u guys have any other suggested web for identification?

And I am watching one auction of the order of red banner from eBay, the seller is called bart.seller from Ukraine. Are that order of red banner genuine and that seller honest? (Personally, I think that one is a little bit weird)

Thanks a lot,

Matthew

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 09-25-2019 02:19 AM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Marcel Banziger** · 09-25-2019, 05:11 AM

To me it looks like an original one.
I suggest, if to look for 100% originals to go to Matt's website. He also has a ORB in the same serial # range so you can compare (both badge and price).

Soviet Order of the Red Banner #64464. Nice condition with some wear.

**kmoney10** · 09-25-2019, 02:53 PM

I have my doubts about this one, the enamel seems to have been replaced, too dark or maybe its the lighting on the pic (dark light test should be a good check). Plus, it seems like it has been spray painted or something in the back/nut area, it doesn't seem like an aged patina to me. With all these little things in mind, i passed on this lot. Engraving of "4" also doesn't look like anything i've seen in other red banner this type. this "bart.seller" and "axl.history" i believe is the same person on ebay. axl.history is selling 2 other red banners, also from Ukraine and lots end around the same time.

Just FYI, fakes have come a long way from 1999, but the mentality of the Russian/Ukrainian hasn't changed. These guys will combine original OGPI star with fake gold star in the back, they will smelt the gold and sell you garbage.

**Marcel Banziger** · 09-25-2019, 06:12 PM

Do you have a link to this seller on Ebay? Usually seeing more of a seller's items will show enough. With this one the enamel around the CCCP is replaced yes, the other looks genuine. Backside is indeed dubious, like it is spraypainted indeed...however the veteran could also have cleaned his/her badge a lot with all kinds of polishes etc. Just look at the top of the torch for example. Therefor I am interested to see what else he is selling to see if the rest is also dubious.

Hereby a guaranteed original:

**kmoney10** · 09-25-2019, 09:11 PM

bart.seller https://www.ebay.com/usr/bart.seller
axl.history https://www.ebay.com/usr/axl.history

let me know what you think. i do agree with you - the owner may have polished or did something that ruined the back. But i guess i am more of a "i have to be certain" in order to go for it.

**Marcel Banziger** · 09-25-2019, 09:32 PM

This evening I have been looking at those photos several times to see if my opinion would change. It is a doubtful order but I slightly lean towards the original side...still. Though it can be that the badge is heavily cleaned or polished which also resulted in staining and unusual discolorisation on the back.

Also thanks for the links to the seller(s). It looks like it is the same seller indeed. I wonder why he has such a low starting price while usually these go for around a € 1000. That only fuels the suspicion.

And I fully agree with you. With such items I also wanna be certain about originality. I can spend my money only once so I better spend it good and not on items with suspicions surrounding them.

I look forward to more opinions on this ORB. Is it a good faked order or an original "ruined" a bit by too much polishing and cleaning?

**Leaftree** · 09-26-2019, 03:24 AM

So...looking at the Mondvor site it's looks like a type 2, option 3, variety 2.
In my opinion it's a fake:
-Torch on obverse is a mess
-Reverse, I think I'm seeing pockmarks
-Wreath edge details seem lacking
-Serial number and maker mark look off to me.

Just my opinions gentlemen. I don't have a ORB screw back in my collection yet. I would pass on this one though. In fact I wouldn't even consider picking one up unless verified original on a forum or a dealer. Just way to many fakes of these.

**Marcel Banziger** · 09-26-2019, 05:12 AM

Torch being a mess and wreath edge being not so detailed can happen due to wear, see mine below. Other observations seem correct. I am still doubtfull....and when I collect I never buy doubtful items. Never.

**Marcel Banziger** · 09-29-2019, 10:50 PM

After checking quite some other ORB's in the same serial # range over the last week I have to agree with what is said by Leaftree and kmoney10 that the order that started this thread is a fake. I also noticed the ORB is no longer for sale/ is sold now. I wonder for how much it went since it had such a low starting price.