German or Soviet cartridge case?

[Glenn66]

I've recently taken ownership of a trench art cartridge from a Stalingrad digger I sometimes buy from. I am curious as to the origin of the cartridge. I can see the markings '23g' and on the opposite side what looks like a '38' or '88' and a '9'.

The measurement across the base is 25mm. Is this German, Soviet, Anti Aircraft or perhaps aircraft ammunition?

Any information would be much appreciated.

Cheers
Glenn

[zwerge]

This COULD be a 20x105B Solothurn cartridge which was in use by the Germans.

[Glenn66]

Thanks for the comment!

I saw awhile back a thread that had information regarding dimensions of similar cases but I can't find it now, does anyone have a link?

[grenadierHeinz]

Hi! I just recieved 4 similar trench art shells. They were made into a set of four matching shot glasses. The shell looks to be the same as yours minus the engraving job. Have you found any further info on yours?

Mine all have different markings. I assume the stamped 38 and 37 are the year dates. The WaA's are as follows: WaA231, 406, 406 and 587. They also have some other markings which may be batch #'s? 20f, 14a, 6f and 15a. Also unknown are the following: P414, P, P and P315.

The base measures 25mm as well and are in Excellent condition. I will try and get some pictures posted.

[Glenn66]

No, I haven't found any further information, to be honest i haven't been looking either.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Glenn, I cannot id the case, but it has to be German, as the Russians don't use the letter "g" in that format. A Cyrillic "g" looks like an "r" to Western eyes.

Cheers, Ade.

[Glenn66]

Hi Ade, thats good enough for me. Anyway it's more the authenticity of the 'trench art' itself that causes me to raise an eyebrow. I can imagine some dingey basement in Volograd and a worker busily churning out trench art shell cases from a pile of old cases, only to be quickly listed on fleabay.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Glenn, I can imagine that too.

But the overall patina looks right with the age to the engraving being the same colour as the case in general.

Cheers, Ade.

[Matt L]

Yeah, that's a 2cm Flak 30/38 case- the 23g is the lot number and there'll also be a year and and a maker code and sometimes a Waffenamt stamp on it. Although overshadowed by the horrendous ground combat, the air battles over Stalingrad were particularly fierce as well and there was certainly a lot of anti-aircraft ammunition expended. The easiest way to identify a small-calibre Flak round is the belted casing- aircraft ammunition didn't need it because it had a rather smaller propellent charge.

[grenadierHeinz]

Here are some pics of the ones I have.