Yataghan From the Flea Market

[Spitace41]

Hi all. I picked this up at a flea market yesterday. I know condition can't get much worse but I always pick up things I don't recognise if they are priced right. My initial thoughts are that this is a British 1853 Artillery Carbine bayonet, the rarer type before they moved to leather grips. But on the few photos I have seen of that bayonet the rivets are noticeably staggered where on this they are in line. Also, the mortise slot appears to be very slightly narrower but maybe that's just me. I would welcome any opinions on this bayo. Cheers.

[Watchdog]

Yep, it is a bit "salty" for sure!

I believe this is a French bayonet of the type I have always known as "Chassepot" and I think this type is a few years earlier than the type with the curved quillon.

If the spine of the blade is less corroded than the rest you might be able to read an inscription which indicates the "pattern" year and which arsenal it was made in usually these are marked for Chatellerault or St Ettienne.

I hope this helps

Regards

Mark

[Spitace41]

Hi Mark. Thanks for replying. I think you are referring to the French 1842 yataghan bayonet. The British copied this with the 1853 bayonet and they look very similar but you will notice that the fuller is a different shape and the handle rivets are in different places. Also the 1842 is quite a bit chunkier.

[Watchdog]

Hi Mark. Thanks for replying. I think you are referring to the French 1842 yataghan bayonet. The British copied this with the 1853 bayonet and they look very similar but you will notice that the fuller is a different shape and the handle rivets are in different places. Also the 1842 is quite a bit chunkier.

Yes, I was referring to the 1842 bayonet and I see what you mean,very similar at first glance though

Looking closer I see H and 2 on the pommel. If that is a unit abbreviation I can only think of 2nd Hussars but that doesn't really help as there were units with such a title in British (2nd Gloucestershire Hussars) and French armies plus The Kings German Legion and certainly in the British Army I don't believe anyone in a Hussar Regt would be carrying such a side arm.

Good luck with identifying it.

Mark

[Anderson]

Well it's French. What I believe you have there is the Model 1840 Sword Bayonet. This was actually the original design of the yataghan sword bayonet. The design was revised in M1842 and it indeed did become "chunkier".

[Spitace41]

Hi Anderson. Thanks for that. I was not aware of the 1840 model. Although the only photos I can find of the 1840 all have brass cross-guards not steel and have square fullers, where as this one appears to taper towards the ricasso.

[AndyB]

It could be earlier bayonet made similar to M1842, the pommel look more heavy, possible are belgian or english production too.The original M1842 have other shape spine of handgrip and have more larger crossguard, it would be good have dimension of the pictured bayonet.br.Andy

[Spitace41]

Thanks for the interest. Here are some photos side by side with a French M1842/59 that I have. I know that the M1842/59 differs from the original M1842, mainly in the type of spring used, but this comparison does show the differences in general construction. Cheers.

[Anderson]

An interesting thread. My money is still on it being a M1840 or variant, perhaps foreign contractor. But lets see what else turns up.

[Spitace41]

My reasoning behind it being a British 1853 artillery carbine bayonet is based on another example I own (again poor condition having been cut down) which definitely has British markings and a rather poor image from a bayonet book by Frederick J Stephens. My I can see some small differences with the one I originally posted but was wondering if these were manufacturing variations.