British MkIII Turtle pattern helmet

[M.E.E.]

I posted two Turtles recently but as both were mkIV's/V's I did not add them to this thread but on their own.

great pickup and the liner you need is the MKII type from the MKII helmet so should be easy to find one.

You would think so but liners seem to be on the rise big time right now, I can get post war for about $50 cnd or a 45 marked for $70, my local stores can't keep liners in. It is almost cheaper to buy a clapped out helmet and steal the liner but I can't bring myself to part out a helmet.

[Composite]

I know how you feel...and indeed, I didn’t/couldnt play around with liner/Helmet/screw/strap dynamics to start with....but THEY did...liners were switched, straps replaced....and if THEY didn’t do it someone might’ve 50 years ago...you’ll never know.

I believe liner ‘salvage’ is important....one part of the item may have “gone”...but it might not have been original in the first place........

...even the painted-in screws might not be original...it’s a difficult call...

[Composite]

I had reason to revisit this thread this morning....and it's made me think that we (Brits) have no books dedicated to the III, IV, V, 6, 6A, 7 and Virtus....four distinct helmet shapes and 75 years without a fully documented history....and even when there is, it'll be restricted to metal or Compo......how sad it that?...... especially when it seems that a new book about the M1 or all those German things seems to come out every month........

now's the time for "Helmets of the British Army...the Somme to Syria"...there...I'll even give you the title......

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[Greg Pickersgill]

Well look, we could simply say it's all a bit of a lost cause because the one person (we know of) who has done substantial research on this is a nitpicking perfectionist who will not publish until he know the name of the man who actually put the helmets into a crate on the morning of 14th January 1942. There may, however, be other people who know as much - or at least as much of the Important Stuff - but they haven't come forward (now's the time!). But perhaps the thing to think about is, do we actually *need* that breadth and depth of information.

I'm not suggesting that a simple bulleted list is all that is required (going from one idiotic extreme to the other) but something like substantially expanded versions of the info in 'Casques de Combat' (at 80 A4 pages the most comprehensive 'book' on UK helmets published so far, incredibly) or even Martin Brayley's book. One should also bring good websites like World War Helmets, Joseba's and The Brodie Helmet into the comparison. The thing is to start knowing what you want to cover - and keeping that task human-scale - and then *stopping* when the mission plan is completed.

One wonders whether compiling information from sources such as those cited above, and others, including the several forums devoted to UK helmets of various periods, might not actually achieve what we need rather than want. All *I* really want is a comprehensive and detailed outline of the hows and whys and wheres and whens of each helmet, including simple straightforward things like date and manufacturer and so on. The information is out there - for example there's pretty much everything a reasonable person needs to know about WW2 period chinstraps on a thread in Warrelics.

No, I am not volunteering to organise pulling all this stuff together. At the moment I am feeling too old and tired and overrun with dozens of tiny little unresolved problems. But I would help.

[Redstalker]

Not a MkIII but better posted on this part of the forum I think. Here I have a 1956 dated MkIV turtle helmet. Now most collectors believe that 1953 was the last year of production but I have seen one other example and I believe it was Gregs example? Now the unusual feature about this helmet is that it has a red oxide primer underneath the green OD paint (see pics). The only other helmet I have seen a red oxide primer on is the Australian M1 from the late 1970s. Was wondering if anyone has any Australian MkIIs that have red oxide primer? Just a theory that these were made by/for the Australian armed forces and would be most grateful if anyone can shed some light on this one

[Greg Pickersgill]

If anyone wants to crosscheck with my example - which has at least one unusual feature of its own - go to Unusual British Mk 4 - or what?

I still have no idea of the how or why of this apparently out of series date, although I can say that two or three people (apart from Redstalker) have told me they have also seen 1956 examples. Mine has no red oxide showing, but I don;t know whether that proves something or nothing. I sort of assumed an Irish Army connection considering who I bought it from, but that could be just a dream. Equally I rather doubt there was a crash production run for the Suez Crisis; I'm pretty sure there must have been enough helmets in stock after WW2 and Korea.

Someone must know more - tell us!

[Jerry B]

Interesting.

Perhaps totally unrelated, but you see a lot of MKII Para helmets made in 1956.

[Redstalker]

Interesting.

Perhaps totally unrelated, but you see a lot of MKII Para helmets made in 1956.

Maybe they were contracted to produce the Mk IV and the para MkII at the same time for cost saving reasons, rather having multiple manufacturers making two different types of helmet. I do have a MkII para helmet which is made by ROCO and dated 1956.

[Jerry B]

Maybe they were contracted to produce the Mk IV and the para MkII at the same time for cost saving reasons, rather having multiple manufacturers making two different types of helmet. I do have a MkII para helmet which is made by ROCO and dated 1956.

Same maker and date as one I have, though the 56 is partly hidden in the picture.

[Scott G]

Hi, Redstalker,
I could be wrong, but it looks like 'Canadian Green' to me.
Somewhere... (I remember reading) that the Canadian helmets and equipment in CF stores were refurbished/repainted.
I have a few that have the red oxide primer under the topcoat as well as some that have just been over-painted.
The chinstraps were also replaced as part of the refurbishment and they were a dark green colour instead of the older tan.

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