fire guards helmet

**joseph barrett** · 08-21-2011, 11:10 AM

Head fire guards helmet dated 1939 made by F&L. Fisher & Ludlow Ltd (Birmingham) MK.1 liner also dated 1939 made by J. Complon Sons & Webb Ltd. (London) attached to the helmet by a MK.1 nut and bolt it also has a MK.11 chin strap attached to the helmet by MK.11 chin strap securing lugs. I have called this helmet a Head fire guards but this is the first time I have come across three black rank stripes on a helmet the most I have seen before are two although I have seen three black diamonds before for senior officers and head of services. There was not a standardised rank paint system between the twelve Civil defence regions until July 1940 so it could be from before then but you world think it would be over painted after that date but some of the material I have looked at states that not all regions stuck to the guidelines, although some idiot has tried to clean the rust off which has damaged some of the paint it does look original. Thoughts anybody.

**NCA** · 08-21-2011, 02:52 PM

Very nice.Thanks for showing.Thats the beauty of Home front helmets..never ending variety and variations.
You refered to a 'mk1 nut&bolt and a mk2 chinstrap and lugs?Im guessing the mk 1 nut and bolt is the wider version?What is the mark 2 chinstrap and lugs?and what were the mk1's!?

**MySonsDad** · 08-21-2011, 02:54 PM

Great looking helmet, would love to have one up on the shelf!

**joseph barrett** · 08-21-2011, 04:35 PM

by NCA

Very nice.Thanks for showing.Thats the beauty of Home front helmets..never ending variety and variations.
You refered to a 'mk1 nut&bolt and a mk2 chinstrap and lugs?Im guessing the mk 1 nut and bolt is the wider version?What is the mark 2 chinstrap and lugs?and what were the mk1's!?

In the picture of the liner nut and bolts from left to right MK.1 MK.11 with different nut MK.111 with smaller bolt.

In the picture of chin strap lugs from top to bottom MKs.1, 11, and 111 the MK.1 was used on the MK1* helmet which was a refurbished MK.1 brodie, it was designed for the MK.1 chin strap although this is the second chin strap lug used on the MK1* helmet the first being magnetic this one is non magnetic, the MK.1 chin strap is identical to the MK.11 chin strap except for the end loops which are bigger as you can see from the picture of the chin strap lugs, after getting complaints about the the MK.1 chin strap loops they made them smaller making it a MK11 chin strap so they also designed a MK.11 chin strap lug to go with it, I think the MK.111 chin strap lug was a economy measure the same as the MK.111 nut and bolt.

**NCA** · 08-21-2011, 04:40 PM

Many thanks for your reply.Very useful information.

Just had a look at the three mk2's i have with me and one is 39 dated the other two are 40' dated.Both have the 'mk3' lugs.
Are these collectors terms or some kind of official designation?

**tinlid** · 08-21-2011, 06:38 PM

Nice FG helmet, you just beat someone who I know was going for it too. The 1 & 2 band marked FG helmets you do see now & again but the 3 banders are very rare, well done.
NCA the MkIII chin strap lugs came in in March 1939, so you do see 39 dated helmets with both types of lugs.
Aaron

**joseph barrett** · 08-21-2011, 08:16 PM

by NCA

Many thanks for your reply.Very useful information.

Just had a look at the three mk2's i have with me and one is 39 dated the other two are 40' dated.Both have the 'mk3' lugs.
Are these collectors terms or some kind of official designation?

As far as I know they are the official designation, the MKs1 and 2 were introduced in 1937 and as Aron as all ready said the MK.3 in1939. Out of ten MK.11 helmets that I have only two of them have MK.11 chin strap lugs the rest are MK.111s.

**joseph barrett** · 08-21-2011, 08:25 PM

by tinlid

Nice FG helmet, you just beat someone who I know was going for it too. The 1 & 2 band marked FG helmets you do see now & again but the 3 banders are very rare, well done.
NCA the MkIII chin strap lugs came in in March 1939, so you do see 39 dated helmets with both types of lugs.
Aaron

Hi Aron I was pleased with it until I held it in my hands and I could see someone had used a scourer of some sort on it, unfortunately it did not show up in the pictures if I had known I would not have paid as much for it.

**tinlid** · 08-21-2011, 08:42 PM

It's a bit of a shame that someones done that but it's still a rare one, you could always upgrade with a better one in about another 20 years or so if one comes along

Here's 2 RO&CO helmets both dated 39 but 1 has the MkII & 1 has the MkIII chin strap lugs.
Aaron