just a zuckerman

[Shadwellarmy]

Hi mates,

here is a PSC example from 41, got it from my grandfather when I was a kid. Any Ideas what the "L" stands for?



Cheers!
Mads

[NCA]

The L is for Large.i:e size large.

[Shadwellarmy]

too logic for me, expected something more exciting

[plumbob]

Yes L for large, My one shown has M for medium. Might be a simple answer but better finding out.
Nice lid
Regards
Rod

[Greg Pickersgill]

Large is comparatively uncommon; most of the examples I've seen or have are Medium. What I'd like to know is, has anyone either got or even seen a Small. I certainly haven't, though to tell the truth I was pretty convinced there were *all* Medium until fairly recently. That might have been taking standardisation a bit far though.

I should have known it really, having a certain acquaintance with Adrian Blake, but it hadn't really dawned on me that there was no such thing as 'just a Zuckerman helmet'. For a start there are a dozen or more manufacturers, yes, obvious, but even that hadn't penetrated properly beforehand; I started to look four or five times at these rather gormless objects and soon realised that apart from the different manufacturers there were other variations; rims folded up, rims folded down, and at least one with an applique rim not unlike a Mk2.

Then you really get into it and notice that some of them have different chinstrap lugs too; I have so far noted four, including one genuinely startling rivetted-on example. For want of any better terminology I am calling these the Open loop (left), Closed loop (centre), and Short Closed (right) in the first picture below.

And here in the second picture is the more unusual example with the riveted-on rather than spot-welded lug - this helmet also has the separate rim. Unfortunately the makers mark is very faint and impossible to read even with my USB microscope.

See picture 3 for some chinstrap loops; the one on the left as shown is a simple metal ring which certainly looks like it been there from the date of manufacture, the centre has an apparently normal Mk2 chinstrap attached, but this completely lacks the usual springs, and there's no sign that they were ever inserted, and the right has a leather chinstrap that looks surprisingly fresh, but might well have been original to the also well-preserved helmet.

Fascinating really, once you get into it. I'm already developing a rather sick fascination in collecting all the different manufacturers for intense compare&contrast, as well as looking out for anything unusual. Like for example one made any time other than 1941 (were they ever?).

[NCA]

I like them!Worthy of their own study thread imo.I have three but can only lay my hands on two of them at the moment.

First one is made by SM.1941.Size M.Rim turned up.Short closed loops.
Second is VM.1941.Size M.Rim turned down.Open loops..

[tinlid]

I don't think there is a small size just medium & large, I'm also pretty sure the shells were only made in 41, although I have seen a 1940 dated liner & I do have what I think is a 42 dated liner but it's not in the best of condition.
So glad people are taking a bit more of interest in these helmets as they did play quite a big part in the defence of this Country during the war.

[plumbob]

Well studied and well written Greg
They do appear to be a very under rated helmet.
I never realised there were so many differences on these helmets. And personal I don’t think there is anything wrong with collecting these.
I am sure there must be many more differences still to be discovered. I wonder why even there was a need to produce a different shaped helmet from the brodie for the home front.
Coincidently the original helmet that started this thread has riveted loops and a separate rim and it was made by RO&CO 7/41 hope this may help.
Best regards
Rod

[tinlid]

What was I saying about the shells only being made in 41, well this one has just come on ebay & b******* me it's dated 1940.

[James C]

i really like this example plumbob it is certainly the more desirable model of zuckerman i believe all manor of chinstraps were used for these and i also agree with you when you say every collection should have at least one these ,thanks for sharing james