Liner treatment ?

**Composite** · 05-07-2016, 04:06 PM

Good luck!

**pluto** · 05-08-2016, 06:32 AM

Good morning all
I fully agree with Chris,I also noticed that helmets in my collection are degrading, and why not, heat and humidity are still affecting them as they are not in a controlled environment ,but I believe that by giving them the treatment that we have been talking about ,will give them a new lease of life,I am also really impressed from the photos of the liner before and after it was treated as from the after photo ,the liner looks like new,all my liners are really brittle but I will try the vaseline treatment and see what happens, thank you all for the advise and tips you give and have a nice day
Joe

**CBH** · 05-08-2016, 04:30 PM

Thank you for the kind words Joe . I hope you'll post some before and after shoots of your helmets . As for the fear wax might hurt decals , I've found my "Conservator's Wax" it states on the container can be used on , painted surfaces ,finished wood ,leather , plastics , photographs even paper to name a few . This would be a much higher end , pure wax , museum quality , and expensive . I believe it came from " Lee Valley Tools " here in Canada . I have a painted decal Brodie with family connections that I am going to use conservators wax on , I'll share the results . Have a great day .

**Tinhat** · 02-24-2020, 05:11 AM

Recently I got a helmet with a badly deformed liner, in addition to that, three ends of the sheet fiber straps that go pass through the cruciform pad were broken, two with bits missing.

With a liner hanging on by one bit of sheet fiber end and badly deformed I was resigned to the inevitable fact that eventually the last one would break and I would either need to replace the liner or have an empty shell.
The problem for me was that the liner and shell are both named and I wanted to maintain that continuity as it was an import point in the helmet identification (Jordanian, shown here ARAB ARMY helmets Arab Israeli wars, 1967 - 1982 post #12)

With nothing to lose I thought I would set about steaming it.

Below are the before and after shots, and a run down of what I did.

I’m really pleased with the results, the one thing I could do better would be the connection of the fiber straps but I’ll get to that.

Initially I was quite cautious, I wanted to steam it but not boil it, fortunately we had a saucepan with with a steaming ‘thing’ that sits on top, boiled about two inches of water. I decided to put a towel in the bottom of the steamer thing – damp heat rather than full on steam.

I had a mixing bowl roughly about the size I wanted to stretch it over.
I was in and out every 30 second to a minute to make sure nothing drastic was happening, pretty soon I realized the leather cloth, Rexine, whatever it’s called, was sticking to the towel and leaving that black ring that we know about on helmet shells – safety tip, don’t do this with your wife watching!

Bit by bit, I worked it over the bowl, the fiber sheet only softens a bit and everything goes hard again as soon as it cools and tries to go back to the original shape, it is a two steps forward one step back process.

I messed around with covering, not covering, having the bowl in there, putting a smaller bowl inside the cradle (I could do that because it was broken) In the end I flipped the liner in the steamer so that the leather cloth was facing up, this got quicker results.

Next phase was fixing the fiber straps, I used thick black card, re-created the missing bits and stuck another piece behind to thing everything, using normal PVA glue. The card doesn’t have the same strength obviously, but is fit for purpose, once they are all connected, and the liner isn’t pulling them out of shape there isn’t a lot of stress on them.

If you are think in of trying this, what would I do different next time is:

I made one big oversight, I didn’t realize that it was the laced-up ends of the liner that was stopping moving further down the bowl. If I had spotted that fairly obvious point and removed the lace, I would have made better progress.

I would have flipped it in the steamer earlier, as soon as the leather cloth had become pliable.

I would have put some oil or Vaseline on the bowl.

I should have invested in some vulcanized fiber sheet, it seems available in the US, and would have given better results.

Things I might experiment on next time:
I wonder if oiling the leather cloth before steaming if it would absorb some and remain softer, unlikely I think but if it softens there is an outside chance.

Steve

**Composite** · 02-24-2020, 10:23 AM

great post Steve. Thank you.

I think the jump to "repair" is quite a big one....I take stick/flak for using hot water to reshape (and remove the webs / dirt) and adding new stuff (supporting strips etc) to an old lid may be a step too far for such purists. Personally, if the liner is b*ggered ('technical term...it's in the book....not! ;-) ) I either simply accept that or consider switching out...I'm currently trying to recall where I've put one of my very first HF lid purchases (a very rusty POLICE lid....but with a great liner) so I can switch with a more recent acquisition (great lid, poor liner) - as has already been said, these things were almost made to be switched...indeed some teams/functions relied on it happening when their members changed roles. For the time being at least, my friends will remain a bucket of hot water (and sunshine) and a weapons-grade hair dryer for those gas curtains.

As for shell cleaning, in the early days (30+ years ago) I played around with a number of Cleaning solutions...some of which have re-visited me many years later (mostly in the form of a white hard-to-remove coating)....so, again, I've preferred good ol' hot water. Abrasive car paintwork products such as "T-Cut" have been used by some - the result can be an almost brand new paint finish....but it can also mean total obliteration! One joy (yes, I ought to get out more) is revealing UNDERLYING markings (on Home Front lids especially)...and that then brings the temptation to STRIP on an industrial scale...we're not talking Acetate here.....more Nytromors or similar! I haven't done that but I've seen some good outcomes...but I've seen a lot lot more disasters!

Whatever one does to clean or even repair a helmet, you only need ONE mouse.......... :-)

**Composite** · 02-24-2020, 10:41 AM

......there's another debate about Rexine flaps...should one allow them to simply flop down or fill the liner with something to keep them supported, like scrunched newspaper....'tho that doesn't usually provide enough support for the MkII liner's cruciform crown pad which, overtime, droops and may ultimately tear-off under gravity.... It was suggested to me that "we" should remove ALL cruciform pads upon acquisition of the helmet and store them separately, with perhaps a recording system re what came from what helmet.......or we could simply all store and display them upside down!

**Tinhat** · 02-24-2020, 07:53 PM

by Composite

I think the jump to "repair" is quite a big one....I take stick/flak for using hot water to reshape (and remove the webs / dirt) and adding new stuff (supporting strips etc) to an old lid may be a step too far for such purists.

I wouldn't disagree, as I said with this one I wanted to keep it with the helmet, you cant unb*gger something, the bit about the repair is that with a water based glue, it can be removed if it really offends the next owner, whenever that is.

At some point we will run out of liners to swap around, and as prices increase the old shells will continue to be pimped up that the opportunity to buy helmets for the liner will reduce. I personally have no interest in a repro liner, if one existed, which I doubt as the cost to manufacture would make it difficult. Those liners currently relegated to B team helmets will eventually be needed for better shells with no liners.

Storage points you make are interesting, recently I've started to think about how better to store my MkIIs, its gone from how many is too many in a pile to how do I avoid stacking. I tend to lean towards the upside down method now I've read your comments, that way you can release the nut on the cruciform, so it's not under any pressure.
With respect to the cruciform, one thing would be to add a large washer under the nut, this would spread the load over the whole reinforced area, most of the problems I have are the size of the nut isn't much bigger than the hole so cuts in.

On the bright side, our collecting generations job was to secure the items for posterity, the next generation can wrestle with how to keep it all intact.

The burning question, should you place the lace on CPH to keep the liner in, even if is a new old stock 1940s lace?

Steve.

**Composite** · 02-24-2020, 08:06 PM

Ahh, the ol’ lace replacement dilemma.........I dunno.......having read so much archive stuff about how all the bits were provided separately.....AND sent back in bits too....

I’ve not had to face that challenge......for me, it’s all about the markings on the helmets....liner or no liner. I’d rather a liner be held in place by the original remnants than by something from Timpsons that’s for sure......