Rolled edge British helmet

[busman]

Hi has anyone info on this type of helmet, it has a rolled edge ,this I have not seen before.

[tinlid]

Pretty sure its a British private purchase, I'll add some pic's of mine tomorrow night.

[busman]

Thanks that would be good if you could.

[SteveR]

If you are going to war go in style Old Boy.
Pip Pip Cherrio and all of that sort of thing. Off to the Hounds Lads.

[Greg Pickersgill]

This is one of my favourite Mystery Helmets. They pop up from time to time - there was one on Ebay just a week or so back - and apart from a vague reference in one of Cotton's articles on the Mk2 in MILITARIA (referring to it as a substandard version with the Dutch Bend rim) I've not yet seen anything really detailed and conclusive about them (Wait for it, the Book will be out any time now...)

Tinlid is probably correct in that its a PP helmet. The one posted above is the first I have ever seen with a military appearance and a proper regulation chinstrap. Every other, including the two or three I have, is more akin to the pictures I'm including here. The mismatched chinstrap is as-usual. It always amazes me. Where did all those mismatched spare parts come from?

A question - is yours more or less circular in plan, and is its top essentially flat?

[Tinhat]

I had one of these once, very similar to the one Greg posted. I think it is private purchase for civilian use. The fact that they are circular, flat top and have the concentric marks over to whole helmet I believe means that they have been spun as opposed to stamped or pressed into shape, here's a video clip that will explain better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpAbxUb5XEA . This would also be the reason for the turned lip as an extension of the same process.

Any saucepan company would have the skill set to make these with little investment. It wouldn't have the same ballistic properties but it would allow the manufacturer to skirt some of the controls placed on the MkII shell manufacturers.
Steve.

[Greg Pickersgill]

Wow, thanks Steve! I've often read about cheap commercial PP helmets (there are a couple of others similar but different to those shown here) being 'spun' rather than pressed and never entirely grasped what was meant. That video makes it all completely clear. Absolutely amazing.

I really would like to know a great deal more about these helmets.

[tinlid]

Mine is exactly the same as Greg's,& like his I expect there to be no markings on the shell or liner, just the size on the liner.
Steve, that video really shows how these helmets were made, another mystery solved.
Thanks.

[Tinhat]

The more I look the more interesting they become. The liners are the ‘Helmet Lining MkII’ with the cruciform pad and rubber bumpers so although not stamped puts them 1940 or later.
Manufacturing control was introduced in 1940 mainly to assure the quality of the steel for military use and supply to approved manufacturers. ‘Tin Hat for Tommy’ states that Ministry of Home Security experimented with alternatives because of reduced availability.

I would hazard a guess that these are a model officially sanctioned by the Ministry of Home Security, giving them access to the liner assembly (same as the Plasfort and fiber helmets). In that way may be a bit more than ‘private purchase’ filling the gap until the MkII became available– no evidence to back that up though.

[Greg Pickersgill]

Here's the text of the Marcus Cotton article from MILITARIA MAGAZINE (the short-lived UK edition) - he is writing about the non-military-issue Mk2.

"The grade 2 mild steel helmets issued to the home guard were in the main painted khaki, rather than the grey which had originally been specified for this pattern of helmet.

A number of small variations of the grade 2 helmets exist. The original issues were fited with standard stainless steel rims, however, owing to shortages of stainlesss steel and as the helmets were not required to be non-magnetic, mild steel rims were considered accepable. A further version exists where the rim was formed by simply folding the edge of the helmet brim in a Dutch bend to form a rim. Examples of the Mk2 No. 2D are known fittted with a lining made from sorbo rubber and a crudely made chinstrap which was riveted directly to the helmet body, these helmets appear to have been issued only to factory civil defence units."

Perhaps interesting to note that *all* the examples of the Dutch bend I have seen that are similar to the one I showed early are in fact grey.

And the object shown here *might* be the other version he refers to, although the straps are bolted on rather than rivetted.