British SD Cap

[Redcap]

One of my favourite pieces of headgear, the British SD Cap with typical "slashed" peak and red cover for the CMP, here with an original World War 2 CMP Paybook, Warrant Card and medal group.

[Battery Command Post]

Nice display. :

Both my father and mother were 'redcaps' (TA) in the early 1960s, so we have a family connection with the corps. They both wore the SD and cover even then.

One thing that's missing is the MP armband of course

Here's a picture of my mother, she's the one at front right. Her friend sitting on the Landrover is holding a SD Cap



Rob

[Redcap]

Nice photo !

The stuff in my photo is my fathers. He was CMP from 39 to 49. I do have an armband somewhere but can't lay my hands on it. I really need to get the stuff framed with his service stripes, divisional patch, shoulder titles and his whistle. He was L/Cpl during the war but Sgt by the time he came out.

I remember talking to a former RQMS from another Corps who remembered the apprehension that the appearance of a beefy looking MP senior NCO in ammo boots and SD cap could instill in some squaddies. The Cherry Beret and rubber soled combat boots just don't have the same effect !

[Battery Command Post]

Nice set that definitely needs proper display. I see your dad was a 'Highway Decorator' (51st (Highland) Division). He would have to have been a L/Cpl at least, as it was the corps' lowest rank. The Military Police didn't have any Privates.

I think the MPs often needed any advantage they could get, psychological or otherwise. I know my father did the Plymouth patrol few times, dealing with RN ratings causing trouble after too many beers. Not a job for the faint-hearted...

Rob

[Redcap]

Yes, my Dad was in the 51st, through North Africa, Italy and in Normandy from 6 June 44.

He would have to have been a L/Cpl at least, as it was the corps' lowest rank. The Military Police didn't have any Privates.

Almost right. In fact you remain a Private in the Military Police until completing all the CMS (Common Military Syllabus) training then all the basic Police Duties courses, but its true that once fully trained L/Cpl is the lowest rank. (I did 6 years in the TA RMP in the 80s).

By the way I have quite a few nice Canadian Military Police and Canadian Provost badges including some rare early stuff. Not really sure where to post them though. Maybe this forum is the right one as cap badges are realted to cloth headgear ?

[zwerge]

Here`s some that I have....Pete.

[Battery Command Post]

Almost right. In fact you remain a Private in the Military Police until completing all the CMS (Common Military Syllabus) training then all the basic Police Duties courses, but its true that once fully trained L/Cpl is the lowest rank. (I did 6 years in the TA RMP in the 80s).

In the 1980s yes, but I'm not sure that was true in the 1940s. With all due respect to anyone who chooses to join the military, former and serving soldiers have to be very careful in this hobby, not to assume that their experience bears any relation to the experience of soldiers in the past. To be totally accurate, Lance-Corporal wasn't a rank, it was an appointment given to a Private (in the same way the Lance-Serjeant was an appointment given to a Corporal). For the infantry this was a certain percentage, but in the CMP it was all of them. So, technically, the rank of all L/Cpls was Private.

Rob

[Redcap]

In the 1980s yes, but I'm not sure that was true in the 1940s. With all due respect to anyone who chooses to join the military, former and serving soldiers have to be very careful in this hobby, not to assume that their experience bears any relation to the experience of soldiers in the past.

To be sure.
I am due to speak with a guy who served with my father in the 1940s so I will double check with him. Though I would be surprised if even back then they handed out an NCO rank, however junior, to anyone who had not gone through ( as a Private), a full period of training and in the Military Police, that would include having completed police training as well as regular training.

It'll be interesting to hear what his experiences were.

[Battery Command Post]

To be sure.
I am due to speak with a guy who served with my father in the 1940s so I will double check with him. Though I would be surprised if even back then they handed out an NCO rank, however junior, to anyone who had not gone through ( as a Private), a full period of training and in the Military Police, that would include having completed police training as well as regular training.

It'll be interesting to hear what his experiences were.

I'm sure it would be extremely interesting The (too few) times I have been able to talk to veterans are usually real eye-openers.

On the L/Cpl front, what i am trying to say is that, in the WW2 scenario, L/Cpl isn't a rank. The next rank up from Private is Corporal. It's an appointment handed out to Privates, and in the case of the CMP, was deemed necessary, in my understanding, so that MPs had some sort of implied seniority over the soldiers they were dealing with, although in terms of their rank, they were really all Privates. In the infantry, I believe it was one man in 10 appointed L/Cpl, and other branches had other criteria for the appointment.

In the modern British Army, L/Cpl has been a rank since 1961 and the whole system of 'Lance appointments' was abolished at the same time.

Rob

[Redcap]

I understand where you are coming from. The whole apppointment vs rank thing has always been a confusing factor in the British army.. I know I was confused the first time I saw my fathers rank at one time was W/Sgt !