grenadier guards cap badge

[BobS]

Regarding Grenadier Guards & Welsh Guards officer's cap badges, all I can say is that every photo or reference that I have seen states that officers only, wore embroidered, NOT medal caps badges, either on the dress forage cap, or the khaki service cap.
In my collection, I have both service and dress visor caps for the Welsh Guards; each has an embroidered cap badge. I also have a Grenadier Guards officer's dress forage cap, with, again, an embroidered cap badge.
Warrant officer's in the Grenadiers wear the metal grenade badge, with seperate cypher of the sovereign, I have one for the Grenadiers as well. Other than officers. ALL ranks of the Welsh Guards wear the metal leek as a cap badge.
Not trying to be difficult, but could someone please post the listing in Kipling & King? I have too cheap, or dumb to buy a copy; the recent "British Army Badges" by Col. Robin Hodges is rated highly, but seems to be unavailable; should have bought it a few years ago!

[Battery Command Post]

Not trying to be difficult, but could someone please post the listing in Kipling & King?

OK, I'll scan it for you

Rob

[jimpy]

Ade,
I believe a Grenadier Guards officer's cap badge would only be an embroidered cloth grenade, never a metal badge. Same goes for the Welsh Guards, I believe.

Hi guys,
ALL officer's cap badges in the Brigade of Guards were woven bullion during WWII.
A GG officers cap badge is actually slightly different to an enlisted mans in that it is very similar to the collar dogs that are worn on the scarlet dress uniform present day.

@Rabbitface,
Adam, I will lay a pound to a penny that your grandfathers cap badge has worn through in near enough the same place that my grandfathers has, he was also GG in WWII. Being a nosey so and so, what battalion was your grand-dad in? Mine was in 4th.

Regards etc

Ian d

AKA: Jimpy

[jimpy]

Actually, quick update.. in K&K for the 1911-1936 period for Grenadier Guards it says:

(4) Other-ranks: a fused grenade with a plain ball. All brass (Fig 891). This was worn also in bronze by officers in service-dress.

I missed that.. so there was also a bronze metal version of the plain GGds cap badge used by officers.

Sorry I doubted you there Ade

Rob

Rob

K&K have got it slightly wrong, the ORs cap badge is actually termed a "Grenade fired proper" and also, during WWII had the monarchs mongram, GR, reversed and interlaced. I have previously posted a photo of my grandfathers old cap badge elsewhere on the forums, and you can just about make this out. (My grandfather was a serjeant/tank commander in 4th Btn GG)

Regards etc

Ian D

AKA: Jimpy

[Battery Command Post]

K&K have got it slightly wrong, the ORs cap badge is actually termed a "Grenade fired proper" and also, during WWII had the monarchs mongram, GR, reversed and interlaced. I have previously posted a photo of my grandfathers old cap badge elsewhere on the forums, and you can just about make this out. (My grandfather was a serjeant/tank commander in 4th Btn GG)

Actually they are not wrong at all. The badge you are talking about is listed as the badge for "Sergeants and Musicians" and came in two versions, for KGV and KGVI. the KGVI version was apparently sealed 23rd March 1941, so I am assuming the old king's cypher style continued until that date, unless the sealed pattern was done after the badges were issued.

Anyway, I will scan a copy of the relevant pages.

Rob

[BobS]

Rob

K&K have got it slightly wrong, the ORs cap badge is actually termed a "Grenade fired proper" and also, during WWII had the monarchs mongram, GR, reversed and interlaced. I have previously posted a photo of my grandfathers old cap badge elsewhere on the forums, and you can just about make this out. (My grandfather was a serjeant/tank commander in 4th Btn GG)

Regards etc

Ian D

AKA: Jimpy

If your grandfather was a sergeant, he would have worn the metal grenade badge with the George VI cypher embossed upon it. Lower ranks wore, and continue to wear, the "plain" brass grenade cap badge.

[rabbitface]

hi jimpy,my grandad was in the 6th battalion,no3 company,no3 platoon and was over in italy on monte camino.
do you have any story's from him.
i have a short story from my grandad,but he never spoke to me of what he did or what he saw
many thanks adam

[BobS]

Hi guys,
ALL officer's cap badges in the Brigade of Guards were woven bullion during WWII.
A GG officers cap badge is actually slightly different to an enlisted mans in that it is very similar to the collar dogs that are worn on the scarlet dress uniform present day.

@Rabbitface,
Adam, I will lay a pound to a penny that your grandfathers cap badge has worn through in near enough the same place that my grandfathers has, he was also GG in WWII. Being a nosey so and so, what battalion was your grand-dad in? Mine was in 4th.

Regards etc

Ian d

AKA: Jimpy

Jimpy,
I'm not sure where you got this information regarding officer's cap badges in WWII. I have an Irish Guards WWII era officer's dress forage cap, and the badge is the normal silver metal & enamel. If you are referring to badges worn on the beret, then you are accurate.

[Battery Command Post]

Here are the pages from Kipling and King Vol II (1918-1979) that deal with Grenadier Guards badges:





K&K doesn't really deal with cloth badges at all, and i know embroidered badges do exist. However, what you can say about the book is that it was written by a historian and a collector, and badges listed are verified by actual examples, so they definitely existed (many in Hugh King's extensive collection).

Rob

[BobS]

My ERII Grenadier Guards officer's dress forage cap, with gold embroidered cap badge, No cypher.