Unidentified Staff Officers Cap

[Daremeister]

Hi all,

I came across this old staff officer cap (?) and have no idea what Im looking at. Its made by J Cropmton and Sons & Webb Ltd in London. Appears to be at least WW2 vintage. Havent been able to ID it. Anyone have any ideas? Im in Australia so Im not ruling out that it maybe an Australian Officer cap.

[asterperious]

It is not a staff cap but a standard Royal Artillery formal dress or parade dress cap, could be from anytime interwars to postwar. what do the buttons on the chinstrap looklike? It is all ranks- the cap badge style distinguishes officers from the ranks.

[Daremeister]

Im an idiot. I neglected to look at the buttons which at least confirms origin.

[Jerry B]

It is not only RA, other services used this colour combination for their OR's forage caps, any Royal unit might have this combination (Royal Fusiliers or Royal Welch Fusiliers for instance, though in Australia I am not sure if you would have something that matches these), more commonly known as a dress cap these days. The chinstrap is the version used by other ranks. Circa WWII or perhaps just before, not sure on the dating for the button, pre 53 I assume. The makers are UK based.

[Watchdog]

It is not only RA, other services used this colour combination for their OR's forage caps, any Royal unit might have this combination (Royal Fusiliers or Royal Welch Fusiliers for instance.

Quite so. Just to expand a little though; This is the most commonly worn colour combination and the "Royal" explanation is often used. However, just to mix it up a bit the Adjudant Generals Corps also uses it whilst the Royal Engineers and Royal Military Police do not. Complicated things the British dress regs

The chin strap looks like patent leather which hasn't been used on British issued hats of this type for decades but as this one has Australian buttons that might bear differently on the dating. Having said that, the cap is of British manufacture (Compton & Webb are still around I think) and I have seen private purchase hats with patent leather chin straps.

Regards

Mark

[Jerry B]

Quite so. Just to expand a little though; This is the most commonly worn colour combination and the "Royal" explanation is often used. However, just to mix it up a bit the Adjudant Generals Corps also uses it whilst the Royal Engineers and Royal Military Police do not. Complicated things the British dress regs

The chin strap looks like patent leather which hasn't been used on British issued hats of this type for decades but as this one has Australian buttons that might bear differently on the dating. Having said that, the cap is of British manufacture (Compton & Webb are still around I think) and I have seen private purchase hats with patent leather chin straps.

Regards

Mark

I was in a rush earlier, the red band is supposed to be used by Royal regiments, but as you point out the RE and RMP do not use it, red piping is used by infantry of the line among others, so as in most cases the rules are there to be ignored in many cases. Oli's book covers this but again the variations are wide.

J Compton Sons & Webb were formed in 1899 but did not trade under that name until the mid 20's or 30's. I can't remember when they dropped it but in 1978 they were bought out and changed it to Compton Webb headress and then later again to CW headress.

[Watchdog]

Thanks for the extra info on the maker Jerry. Being a "trainspotter" even then I recall seeing both the J Compton sons & Webb and just Compton Webb during my own service (1975 - 1999) though as I recall Kangol was more common.

Regards

Mark