Jump Wing 2 opinions

[Rakkasan187]

I will also add that many of the German Insignia makers that were producing insignia for the Third Reich during the war were pressed into service making insignia for the Occupation forces. I have several F.W. Assmann and Sohn US made insignia with the iconic "A" stamped into the insignia.. These Occupation pieces are also very collectable and desirable...

Smitty

[Phill Lockett]

Hi Smitty

Yes very desirable and we have seen on your original Korean era named 187th Uniforms, local/Japanese made DUI.

Phill

[Watchdog]

I think the similarity to the type of home front badges is due to the fact that they were commercial production for US troops in UK rather than to satisfy a War Dept contract and that they did not have to conform to a British military spec. The pins were likely the closest to the US style that the maker could immediately produce without especially re-tooling the factory.

Hi Mark

US Forces used what ever was available in the UK at that time, as you know these are termed theatre made and have a high desirability amongst US collectors.

When the US build up occurred local commands (USAAF,USN,Army Group down to companies/individuals)submitted requests to local tailors or well established British makers for insignia , whilst the designs were US "spec'ed", they were under control of British wartime condition and control-meaning they got what the British had in their inventory and hence you get the British style pin back and different colour interpretation for SSI.

Specs were used as a guide line for British manufacturers to follow.

This was and is still common for US Forces that are stationed all over the world-using local theatre made insignia.

Phill

Thanks Phil,

Yes that is exactly what I was talking about. To simplify the situation for the modern mindset this situation is pretty much what British military logisticians call "local purchase" which would simply mean that a unit submit a justification to the immediate higher formation which would authorise the purchase based on the justification with funding from the appropriate local budget. Thus the requirement for a national level defence contract (which has always been a lengthy process). Even simpler, at unit level there are other sources of funding for such things deemed for the good and benefit of the unit such as the CO's Public Fund (I am sure the US military has something similar) in the case of items that would be issued to the troops by the Quartermaster. Then of course there are such as the unit canteens / sutlers shops that would offer such items for private purchase and lets not forget tailors shops. The terminology might differ over time and between nations but I am sure the principle is fairly equal. The essential difference is that we are speaking of a simple purchase order rather than a supply contract.

As you say it still goes on in the US military as it does in the British forces.

Regards

Mark

[Phill Lockett]

Hi Mark

When dealing with US insignia, manufactured in overseas territories , they are classified as unauthorized and for local wear only by commanders. Another reason for this was it was faster to get insignia locally made than wait on supplies from the US, they were not a high priority in the US supply chain.
And these are not allowed in CONUS on class A's-they have stringent policies for uniform insignia.

This has nothing to do with Defense contract as perse,hence it came down to unit level Armies , Corps, Divs, Regt, Bn to organize supply, where short supplied.
In theory individuals are not allowed to wear unauthorized insignia on class A uniforms, hopefully Smitty will add to this.

Where as in British system "Private purchase", this was authorized to some degree , cloth shoulder titles for individual regt can be a quagmire to go into, official, not authorized and authorized by local regt, worn unofficially.

Phill

[Watchdog]

Yep "same meat different gravy" but still a way to make things work!

[Phill Lockett]

Hi Mark

I like the discussion we are having on the supply chain for insignia during wartime.

Although I am new to British WWII Formation signs and cloth titles , I have had a lot of great contacts in understanding the British system-I'm a kiwi makes it worse I guess I should know better!.

However there are so many small nuances on how they put "the gravy on the meat" as you say, from terminology , mass production construction, costs and wartime conditions , coming from collecting US SSI (30 years)to collecting British FS (several years) was mind boggling and Im still learning.

So always interested on learning more about British WWII manufacturing and construction.

Phill