USN Shirt WW2

**steyrlifer** · 05-15-2011, 05:19 PM

Nice undress blue (working blue ) jumper! It appears to be in great shape.

On most WW2 ships, you did your own laundry by hand in a wash bucket. The holes in the bottom hem were for attaching "clothes stops", a short length of white cotton cord used to tie the just washed article to a clothes line for drying. As the war progressed, shipboard laundries became more and more prevelant.

Is that a draw cord in the hem? It is a pre-war feature that was still around during the war.

**reneblacky** · 05-15-2011, 09:55 PM

Thanks steyrlifer
for your reply I didn't know that,
yes it has the cord.

**reneblacky** · 09-18-2011, 02:04 PM

G'day All
Now I have another and I'm not sure on the shoulder (how do I say it) insignia? This one has no Ratings

**steyrlifer** · 09-18-2011, 06:09 PM

Hi reneblacky,
The white piping around the right shoulder denotes a Seaman First Class (usually written as S1/c). If there were no piping and no petty officer insignia you would have a Seaman Apprentice (SA) or Seaman Second Class (S2/c).

You have an undress/working blue jumper with 3/4 length open cuffs. On dress blue jumpers with full length buttoned cuffs, one stripe on the cuff signified SA, two stripes signified S2/c. Three stripes signified S1/c AND would be accompanied by the above mentioned white piping around the right shoulder.

At the start of WW2, most above deck rates wore their rating badges/petty officer insignia on their right sleeve and as such, a S1/c would have his piping insignia on his right sleeve. You will also run across jumpers with the same piping on the left shoulder in red. This is for a Fireman First Class (F1/c). Being a below deck specialty (as in Machinist Mates, Boiler Technicians, Ship Fitters, etc.) their rating badges/petty officer insignia was worn on the right sleeve.

White jumpers? The S1/c's white piping would be in black. The F1/c's red would remain red.

Post war the Navy adopted the current system where shoulder piping was deleted, all three levels of Seamen/Firemen wore three stripes on the cuffs of their dress blue jumpers, and each level was designated by one, two or three small slash marks on the upper left sleeve (still color coded) as had been put into use by the WAVE's.

It's good to see someone devoting time and energy to collecting USN history! Keep up the good work.

**reneblacky** · 09-19-2011, 12:44 AM

by steyrlifer

Hi reneblacky,
The white piping around the right shoulder denotes a Seaman First Class (usually written as S1/c). If there were no piping and no petty officer insignia you would have a Seaman Apprentice (SA) or Seaman Second Class (S2/c).

You have an undress/working blue jumper with 3/4 length open cuffs. On dress blue jumpers with full length buttoned cuffs, one stripe on the cuff signified SA, two stripes signified S2/c. Three stripes signified S1/c AND would be accompanied by the above mentioned white piping around the right shoulder.

At the start of WW2, most above deck rates wore their rating badges/petty officer insignia on their right sleeve and as such, a S1/c would have his piping insignia on his right sleeve. You will also run across jumpers with the same piping on the left shoulder in red. This is for a Fireman First Class (F1/c). Being a below deck specialty (as in Machinist Mates, Boiler Technicians, Ship Fitters, etc.) their rating badges/petty officer insignia was worn on the right sleeve.

White jumpers? The S1/c's white piping would be in black. The F1/c's red would remain red.

Post war the Navy adopted the current system where shoulder piping was deleted, all three levels of Seamen/Firemen wore three stripes on the cuffs of their dress blue jumpers, and each level was designated by one, two or three small slash marks on the upper left sleeve (still color coded) as had been put into use by the WAVE's.

It's good to see someone devoting time and energy to collecting USN history! Keep up the good work.

Thanks again steyrlifer for a very detailed response

**steyrlifer** · 09-19-2011, 02:30 AM

Anything worth doing is worth over-doing!

Correction to my earlier reply..."This is for a Fireman First Class (F1/c). Being a below deck specialty (as in Machinist Mates, Boiler Technicians, Ship Fitters, etc.) their rating badges/petty officer insignia was worn on the right sleeve."
Right sleeve should have read left sleeve.

**reneblacky** · 09-19-2011, 04:30 AM

by steyrlifer

Anything worth doing is worth over-doing!

Correction to my earlier reply..."This is for a Fireman First Class (F1/c). Being a below deck specialty (as in Machinist Mates, Boiler Technicians, Ship Fitters, etc.) their rating badges/petty officer insignia was worn on the right sleeve."
Right sleeve should have read left sleeve.

Cheers Mate correction noted

**MySonsDad** · 09-19-2011, 02:03 PM

Rene, you are ammasing a nice collection of USN vintage jumpers. Something you might want to keep an open eye for is a set of dress jumpers with "Liberty Stiching". Not very uncommon and I think a very nice addition to any USN uniform collection. Some are more detailed than others and often part of a Talor Made uniform instead of Navy issue. Here are a few photos of Liberty Stitched Taylor Made

Liberty Cuffs were also an old navy tradition with Jumpers and can still be found.

Good job and looking forward to seeing the next addition!

Russ

**reneblacky** · 09-21-2011, 06:34 AM

by MySonsDad

Rene, you are ammasing a nice collection of USN vintage jumpers. Something you might want to keep an open eye for is a set of dress jumpers with "Liberty Stiching". Not very uncommon and I think a very nice addition to any USN uniform collection. Some are more detailed than others and often part of a Talor Made uniform instead of Navy issue. Here are a few photos of Liberty Stitched Taylor Made

Liberty Cuffs were also an old navy tradition with Jumpers and can still be found.

Good job and looking forward to seeing the next addition!

Russ

Thanks Russ
I haven't seen this type interesting! I have heard that some ratings patches have something similar underneath

**MySonsDad** · 09-21-2011, 01:27 PM

Rene, "Liberty Stiching" was unauthorized but commonly done by sailors. I'm not sure how far the practice dates back, but it ended around the Viet Nam period, when the Navy started allowing sailors to wear civilian cloths when they went on Liberty. To hid the Liberty Stiching a tailor had to disassemble the jumper. Sailors with a little extra change in their pockets would have a "Tailor Made" or custom set of Dress Blues made, which would be liberty stitched at that time. Another cool feature of many of the tailor made jumpers was the addition of a zipper, down the side. As the jumper would be tailord to fit the contour of the sailors body, it would be impossible to pull on over his head unless it could be unzipped. Zippers were also included on the inside pocket to secure the sailors belongings better. All of this too being unauthorized.

Liberty cuffs were more common and simply no more than an elaboratly stitched patch sew to the inside of the sleave cuff. Sailors on the beach would roll up their sleave cuffs to show off their libery cuffs. Again, unauthorized and if spotted by Shore Patrol they would get a free ride back to the ship.

When ever my kid spots a vintage navy jumper he checks for both liberty stitching and cuffs. We run across a fair number of these, as I said, they are not that uncommon but make a great piece for a uniform collection.

Russ