101st airborne division patch mid 50's?

[Robert1895]

Hi all,

Can you guys help me with this?
The seller says it's a mid 50's airborne patch because of the blue edge.

But this looks to me as a type 3 patch with blue borders.

The eye is not a postwar scribble eye, and the rule with the blue borders are only apply on types 10? If I am correct?

Thank you in advance!

[Rakkasan187]

I have to agree with the seller that this is a 1950's era 101 patch..

Smitty

[Robert1895]

Smitty, can you please explain how do you see it’s a mid 50’s?

[Rakkasan187]

Robert,

Let me get back with you.. I am not with my reference material at the moment...

Smitty

[Rakkasan187]

Robert,

Sorry it took so long to get back with you.. I was writing an article for Memorial Day. Now I have some time to explain to you some of my reasoning for stating this is a post war 1950's era patch.

I try to use more than one source of information to ensure all bases are covered. Mark Bando is probably one of the most well known for identifying 101st Airborne insignia and his book Trigger Time is a great reference. I have had the opportunity to correspond with Mark on a few occasions, although not related to 101st insignia but on a separate research topic.

Back to the patch.. Mark states in his book that there are 9 most common WW2 US made variants. Of these, only 3 were made with the attached "Airborne" tabs.. These were the Type 3, 7 and 8. Type 3 patches as well as type 4 according to Bando have the amoeba shaped eyes with no detail. The only difference is that type 3 has the attached tab and type 4 does not.. This does not mean that I believe that this is a type 4 WW2 era patch.. Let me continue to explain..

I use a multitude of reference books to support my claims in addition to my years of collecting and handling of these insignia..

This next reference book and photos are from 2 well known patch collectors in the US, Kurt and William Keller. They have written numerous books about US Army Shoulder sleeve insignia, focusing on primarily World War Two, but most important is that they go beyond the war years and show examples of post war insignia in their books..
The attached photo of the page in Keller's Book at the bottom left shows an occupation/1950's era blue edge patch that is very similar to yours pictured. This is one reason why I try to use more than one source and I am inclined to agree with the Keller brothers that the insignia is 1950s..

Here is a link to another forum that discusses the Keller book "Emblems of Honor: Airborne"

Emblems of Honor: Airborne Book update pt. 2 - ARMY AND USAAF - U.S. Militaria Forum

Most if not all World War Two era patches will have a khaki or OD border which were the basic colors of the Army's dress and combat uniforms and will all be cut edge patches. Very rarely will another base color fabric be used,, Not saying it wasn't done, but it is very unlikely...

Blue edge borders are believed to have been caused by the black dye bleeding over to the edges causing in effect the blue tinge. Did these insignia see service in WW2? I would have to see some provenance to this theory like on a WW2 uniform with again provenance. Could they have been worn while on occupation duty? Possible..

Type 10 insignia according to Bando have an attached Airborne tab and the area between the tab and shield will be filled in with black twill, this rules out the example posted above as it is the amoeba eye and not a scribble eye..

Mark Bando believes that manufacturing of insignia stopped in 1945, this is his thoughts and I am not inclined to believe just one source, but the general consensus is that most manufacturers had produced ample stocks of insignia and thus the reasoning for seeing them appear on post WW2 uniforms. It is confirmed that left over WW2 stocks of 101st insignia was used minus the Airborne tab when the 101st was reestablished as a basic training unit at Camp Breckinridge, KY in the 1950s and in 1956 when the division was reactivated to a full Airborne Division then the post WW2 insignia was most likely issued post 1956 until all supplies were exhausted and when merrowed edge patches were introduced.

The last reference book that I was looking at is a series of books by LTC John Angolia, "Hero's in our Midst" Volume 3 has many photos of 101st Airborne insignia, and on page 342 there are some that "look" similar but are not within the parameters of what was posted.. There is one eagle that has a chance but the edge is not defined enough to see if it has a blue border or not which it does not appear to.


Robert, I'm not sure if I justified my reasoning or not, but I too have several of these blue edge cut edge 101 patches in my extensive collection and I have always believed them to be 1950's era with out question..


I am hoping that some other patch collectors will also chime in and provide their knowledge. I would like to know what others think as well

Hope this helps

Smitty

[MAP]

Wonderful analysis Smitty

[RMD]

Wonderful analysis Smitty

.... Agreed

[Phill Lockett]

Agree with Smitty.

The above design was made during WWII and into the early 50's from probably the same embroiderer, with the same design punch tape and the same employee's (1942-55 period). Apart from the change of standard khaki/late war OD twill until the 1950's when the base twill was changed to match the base colour thread. Khaki twill was used into the 1960's as well, to add to the confusion,

For the modern collector to understand the differences, arming your self with reputable reference material as sited by Smitty and checking and searching forums is another way.

Smitty covered the subject well but I will say that there is an example of blue twill variations re the uncut void between tab and patch that you see with the 3 strands of thread.

Blue twill was produced during WWII,you will see it on partially embroidered on twill patches, so it was accessible.

Also occupation/post war German manufacturers, who also used the schiffli embroidery process would of used black.blue twill which adds to the confusion but the style/design is easily picked up.

Phill

[Robert1895]

Smitty,

Thank you very much for your time and knowledge!

[Rakkasan187]

Robert,

It is my pleasure to assist where I can.. It was a combined effort though, as other members here have also provided some excellent information that I overlooked.


I would like to single out Phill Lockett, who is one of the most knowledgeable folks I know in regards to US Shoulder sleeve insignia. Phill's knowledge in this field is beyond amazing and I am truly honored to have been complimented by Phill on several occasions on information I have provided to members.. Thank you my friend for your sound advice, expertise and friendship. Most of the information and knowledge I have gained has been through Phill....

We are happy to provide as much information as possible to members so they can make informed decisions and in this case the patch in question is a very nice one. I would not have any issues adding one to my collection..

So Anytime you need something Robert,, (and that goes for anyone else)... don't hesitate to drop me a line.. If I can't help, I will find someone who can...

Best regards and have a great day

Smitty