1937 Aussie webbing - what are these packs?

[Danmark]

Hi guys,
I have these two packs and I don't know if they are ww2 or later?
There are two types of strap as well - any help as I'm a dunce when it comes to this stuff!

Thanks in advance,
Dan

[Danmark]

This is the 2nd one - it has leather closing straps?? and a far too faded ink stamp to read.
Any thoughts?

ciao, D

[reneblacky]

I can say is one of the two packs is VN period and you have a British made shoulder strap and a wide Aust jungle shoulder strap the other pack I'm unsure about

[Danmark]

Thanks mate! They were in my shed with my spanners in them but i always wondered what era they were?
Back to the tool cupboard I guess...

[Watchdog]

The first pack has a NATO Stock Number (NSN) which catologue system is used by Australia along with many other non-NATO nations.

The seccond group of digits ie the fifth and sixth digits indicate the national origin which in this case is 66 indicating Australia.

This might be a VN pattern of pack but the NSN was introduced in 1974 after the Australian withdrawal from VN (1973 I think?). Of course stock in store might have had NSN added but the preceeding stock nomenclature would surely still be visible and I don't think the other markings here pre-date the NSN, neither do they seem extensive enough to identify an item on their own. Still a nice item just not WWII.

Don't chuck it back in the toolshed. If you don't want it I am sure another collector is gagging for a good example like this one.

I have no idea about the other pack either. I would say though, that ever since army surplus shops have existed in UK there have been pseudo military packs etc very much in the '37 patt style marketed to everybody from the school boy "satchel" gang to general workmen types as a tool bag or lunch bag etc. Though they tended to be visually almost identical the quality was not the same. Just a thought.

Regards

Mark

[Danmark]

Thanks for that detailed explanation - more than i had hoped for.
Well if anyone wants to pay postage they can have it.... I'll keep the spanners in the other one.
Cheers , Dan

[Ubique]

Mark, the Aussies were using NSN's by the late 1960's, probably to complement U.S. systems in Vn?
Here is a pic of my two, both an unusual shade of green and fitted with khaki shoulder straps which have unreadable stamps. One pack has black leather straps and is stamped COL CAN 1970 (arrow). The other has webbing straps and is stamped Hugo Fischer 1968 (arrow). As arrow stamped items these would not have been supplied direct to the public. The schoolbags I recall were mostly softer fabric with anodised fittings (maybe from India) except for the occasional genuine hand-me-down.
I still cant figure why these were being produced so late. Maybe for Nasho training?



Oz.

[Watchdog]

Mark, the Aussies were using NSN's by the late 1960's, probably to complement U.S. systems in Vn?
Oz.

Thanks mate,

As far as I was aware the NSN "Nato Stock Number" (as opposed to National Stock Number which was also one of its incarnations) was introduced in 1974 accross the board when the two digit NIIN (National Item Identification Number) was added as the 5th and 6th characters.
The system was of US origin so the NIINs 00 -10 indicated US produced items. The next to be added were Aus, NZ and UK (66, 98 and 99 bizarrely) as they were already participating in the programme. Today, even former Warsaw Pact countries have NIIN and use the NSN system of codification. The predecessor of the NSN was the FSN or Federal Stock Number (1953 - 74) which would have been the same but without the NIIN. I am sure this is what Australian Forces would have been using in the late 60s as the current 13 digit format was not around then.
NSNs can be the source of extreme mental gymnastics, I remember spending hours struggling with COSA (Catalogue of Stores and Ammunition) volumes because the boss wanted to order some piece of nonsense or other

I was very interested in your pack with the black leather straps, I've never even heard of that type before and yours is a very good illustration.

You are quite right about the inferior quality of the "school bags" though as I say you kind of had to be "close enough to touch" to notice that. BTW even in the 70s there were one or two of these around with spurious Broad Arrow markings

This is turning into a very interesting thread for a question about two old "tool bags"

Regards

Mark

[Danmark]

Thanks all - if you look really really closely at my one with the leather straps you can see TWO faint boxes - one large and one small - just like the COL CAN one Ubique posted...... maybe mine was marked the same?
Dan

[Ubique]

[QUOTE=Watchdog;1661745]Thanks mate,

. The predecessor of the NSN was the FSN or Federal Stock Number (1953 - 74) which would have been the same but without the NIIN. I am sure this is what Australian Forces would have been using in the late 60s as the current 13 digit format was not around then.

I would respectfully have to disagree as I have several examples of Australian (66) equipment from 1968 - 1970 which bear the whole 13 digit NSN (AKA Defence Stock Number over here) including the packs that Danmark and I photographed above. Maybe the UK had a slightly different system to us as we would regard the NIIN as being the complete 9 digit item identifier, not just the 2 digit country code. We usually used the 9 digit NIIN without need for the 4 digit Federal Supply prefix in the supply chain paperwork.

Oz.