Unusual Pilot... Help with ID

**asterperious** · 09-20-2012, 05:05 PM

The 'VR' collar devices are RAF 'Volunteer Reserve' which is ineffect the RAF equivalent of the Territorial Force and was implemented in 1925 and expanded in 1936. These were locally based units (usually populated by wealthy types) who had complete a 1 year short service commission, and had more or less paid for their own pilot training, most of the squadrons were administered by civilian staff - many of these men were the backbone of Battle of France and Battle of Britian squadrons. In fact tehir 'elite' and upper class stature was divisis enough that by 1943 the wearing of these collars was prohibited. All the more reason to dismiss what is in this picture as dress up.

**diver99** · 09-20-2012, 05:10 PM

Dwight, yes you are right about all of the reasons mentioned re insignia. But he's wearing RAF tunic. Officers' rank is on the sleeve cuffs, making it harder for us to narrow down a research field. The VR on his lapel denotes Volunteer Reserve.
There was an incident in London during WW2, when to prove a point about people not taking any notice of anything, an officer wore a German officers uniform and walked around without being challenged. This was at the height of the war when there were many foreign uniforms 'on parade' as it were.

**Scout** · 09-20-2012, 05:32 PM

Interesting pic and debate.

**drmessimer** · 09-20-2012, 05:38 PM

diver99: You're right that the RAF rank was worn on the cuff, but the USAAF rank was worn on the shoulders. Below is a WWII USAAF tunic with the regulation insignia. The US Army officer's tunic also had a ring on the cuff, but it did not denote rank. The captain rank insignia is correctly on the shoulders on this USAAF tunic and a 9th Air Force patch is on the left shoulder. Inasmuch as the guy in the post #1 photo is wearing USAAF wings, may we assume that he is purpoting to be a USAAF officer? If so, then his tunic, whether it is an RAF tunic or one patterned on an RAF tunic, should be, with regard to insgnia, a very close match to this one as well as the uniform tunic in the earlier post of the Don Blakeslee photo. Dwight

**diver99** · 09-20-2012, 05:51 PM

I do not disagree with you on tunics, bu I think he is wearing RAF tunic.

**drmessimer** · 09-20-2012, 06:38 PM

Diver99: Maybe I worded my response wrong. Yes, he might be wearing an RAF tunic, or one cut like an RAF tunic. But, if he were a US Army officer, it wouldn't matter whose tunic he was wearing, Army regulations would have required that he wear US insignia. It's the army to which the individual belongs that determines what insignia is required, not the nature of the tunic. However, if he's playing at dress -up, which I think is the case here, than he would be free to make up any uniform combination he wanted to. I think the confusion about his status stems from the utterly non-regulation get-up he has on. Is he pretending to be a British or an American officer? Either way, the get- up is all wrong since it would be non-regulation for the RAF as well as the USAAF. Dwight

**asterperious** · 09-20-2012, 06:59 PM

It is NOT an RAF tunic, it has standard US Army buttons on it and the material is not RAF Offciers barathea wool or cut.

**drmessimer** · 09-20-2012, 08:43 PM

asterperious: I defer to you on that issue because I have no expertise in that sort of thing, and your information makes sense to me. I think the discussion is starting to go in circles and we need to straighten it out so that we can move toward to either a consensus or an agreement to disagree. I and others who have contributed think the guy is a fraud. Others think he's genuine. So my question is; genuine what or fraudulent what, a serving RAF officer or a serving USAAF officer who was previously a member of the RAF? My vote is that he wanted people to believe he was the latter. Dwight

**Walkwolf** · 09-21-2012, 12:00 AM

by drmessimer

diver99: You're right that the RAF rank was worn on the cuff, but the USAAF rank was worn on the shoulders. Below is a WWII USAAF tunic with the regulation insignia. The US Army officer's tunic also had a ring on the cuff, but it did not denote rank. The captain rank insignia is correctly on the shoulders on this USAAF tunic and a 9th Air Force patch is on the left shoulder. Inasmuch as the guy in the post #1 photo is wearing USAAF wings, may we assume that he is purpoting to be a USAAF officer? If so, then his tunic, whether it is an RAF tunic or one patterned on an RAF tunic, should be, with regard to insgnia, a very close match to this one as well as the uniform tunic in the earlier post of the Don Blakeslee photo. Dwight

The Captains bars/rank insignia on the shoulder straps of this example
are in the right spot, but positioned incorrectly.........

**drmessimer** · 09-21-2012, 12:21 AM

Walkwolf: You're right, but for purposes of illustration, it's still a good example of the insignia that was normally found on a USAAF tunic. What's your take on the original photo (post #1)? We need your opinion and, hopefully, your rationale for the opinion. This is a fun discussion that BlueBadger started and the more Forum members who contribute will make it an even better discussion. Dwight