Help!! Can anyone ID these old US Swords please???

[Michael Ryan]

Hi Alli, Some time ago, I purchased the two swords in the attached photos. The hilts are in what appears to be cast brass with white ivory/bone?? grips. I can not see any makers marks as the blades are both rusty and pitted. Can anyone answer the following questions for me please?

1. What are they?
2. What sort of age are they likely to be?
3. Should they have scabbards?
4. Do they have a value?
5. Any other info or opinions can you give?

Thank you in advance to anyone prepaired to help me with these swords.

Cheers and best wishes Michael R

[relicz]

Look like Knights of Columbus swords.

[harryamb2]

masonic swords.

[relicz]

A similar one here.
my best Civil War find I think? - Friendly Metal Detecting Forums

[sargetom]

I believe your swords are both early (1830s-40s)US Militia swords

[Michael Ryan]

Hi Relicz, Thank you for your prompt response and info. What are or were the Knights of Columbus?? And, any idea of age??
With thanks, regards and best wishes Michael R

[bigmacglenn]

I'm also inclined to believe that these are Militia swords...Although it is correct that many Masonic/Fraternal swords are of similar pattern, they are usually far more ornate than these shown...Just my 2 cents...
cheers, Glenn

[SteveR]

They are militia infantry officers swords. There are various patterns of this type of sword. Adopted in the early 1830s and used through the beginning of the American civil war primarily as dress and or parade swords. The handles are carved bone. Values would be $75.00 for the first with the damaged grip and $100.00 for the 2nd. Although collectable they are the least valuable of the civil war era unless they are engraved presentation blades. Scabbards came in leather and metal.

[Michael Ryan]

Hi Harryam, Thank you for your prompt response and suggestion. I had a feeling, judging by the condition etc, that they were quite old and possibly Masonic.
With thanks, regards and best wishes Michael R

[Michael Ryan]

Hi Glen, Thank you for your prompt response and suggestion. I am being drawn away from the Masonic theory so I hope that your opinion is correct. You have made me a happy bunny!!
With thanks, regards and best wishes Michael R