m1917 bayonet markings have got me confused!

[bananamafia]

Can anyone help with this one, I don't normally buy bayonets as I know very little about them but this was going for next to nothing so I thought id take a chance.
Am I right in thinking this is a m1917 bayonet, made by Remington?
if so why has it got a 1913 date, and what do the other markings mean?

could it be a british p1913??

any help greatly appreciated
Ed

[4md]

Yes i believe its a pattern 1913 sword bayonet for the p14 rifle, Im not too familiar with these but i think the notches in the handle are to distinguish it from the pattern 07 bayo for the SMLE


the 8 17 is the date it was made..... these were made in the U.S. for the Brits.

[Alex W]

4md is correct, it was a p13 initially made for British use by Remington in the US. When the US entered the war they found themselves desperately short of bayonets and requisitioned the british ordered bayonets. The US crossed out the British acceptance markings which were done whilst in the factory at Remington and then stamped US underneath and called it the m1917.

[lithgow]

The British P13 bayo was originally designed for the P13 7mm cal rifle-development of this was dropped at the start of WW1 in 1914 and the rifle was redesigned to use .303 ammunition as the P14-production of the rifle was done in the US as they were the only major industrial power not involved directly in the war at the time-when the US did enter the war in 1917 they were very short of rifles (not bayos as such) and as the 3 factories that made the P14 were already set up for mass production, the rifle was altered to use .30-06 US ammo and made as the M1917-as stated above, existing P13 bayo stocks were remarked as US M1917s-the bayos are identical and will fit on either rifle-there are some differences in the scabbards though.

[bananamafia]

Many thanks everyone, great info!!!
I wondered why the crossed out markings but that sorts it!
Any ideas to value with no scabard?

[Alex W]

Hard for me to say a value as it looks like someone has cleaned it hard. All the ones I have seen have a sandblasted blade and dark possibly blued cross guard and pommel. In my neck of the woods you would be looking a touch over one hundred and fifty dollars in good condition with scabbard. I would imagine it would be fairly easy to get a replacement scabbard as you have a few types to choose from. The US M1917 scabbard was a modified P13 scabbard with the leather body painted green. At first they had a leather attachment with belt hook then just with the belt hook attached straight to the scabbard. At the start of WW2 the US then gave the UK a large amount of M1917 bayonets and scabbards which were mainly used for Home Gaurd use. The UK took the belt hook off and added a leather frog. The Home Guard also used british P13 bayonets at this time and would have used P13/P07 scabbards as replacements.

You will find info on the M1917 scabbards at Bayo Points 11
I have attached a pic of the home guard modification.

[USNV5]

Good information so far, for more see:

Bayo Points 10

Scabbard information here:

Bayo Points 11

[bananamafia]

Good information so far, for more see:

Bayo Points 10

Scabbard information here:

Bayo Points 11

Great info and links, very informative.
Many thanks all for your help
I paid 7 pounds for it, so hopefully I've done ok?
So this would be ok with my home guard items?

[lithgow]

Yes indeed.

[USNV5]

As Lithgow said, yes. And I think your price was reasonable as well. With the addition of a P39 leather frog you would have the bayonet and scabbard as worn by the Home Guard. For examples of the rarely seen P39 Leather Equipment see:

Pattern 1939 Leather Infantry Equipment

I should say "rarely seen" here in the US, it's probably more available where you are in the UK. All I have is three of the P39 equipment waist belts, still looking for more. Someday.....