The Changing Map of Poland

[Datrus]

Yes Poland was not formally at war with USSR, but USSR never the less invaded Poland in 1939 without a declaration of war. I would however not hesitate to call it war. USSR captured some 200 000 Polish resistance back the. I was not really debating the Kresy issue. It's of course a sensitive subject but there is a lot of German towns and cities in the western part of what is today called Poland. Poland have also been independent, again, for a few decades. So theoretically Poland could have returned what was forced upon them, but have not really felt the need for it

Regards, Lars

[meyle77]

Return and get what ?
Ukraine and Belorussia is also independent - did they return anything to Poland ?
The history of the German lands lost to Poland is more double sided than that of Kresy.
Alot of German "lands" in the east were a result of friendly colonization by German trades people as well as migration of Germans as a result of religious prosecution. Most places in the former east Germany (pre-1945) had Slavic names that were Germanized as well many people in Germany even today have Slavic sounding names. Situation is much different in Kresy, where Poles were settled as rightful owners since 1400s.

[Cenowski]

The soviets sneaked from the east to help the Germans in 39 and then played the allied card when it went all wrong for them. Simple fact, so when the boarders were all twisted up in the Aliied meeting which included only leaders from three countries/empires. At this time Poland was not at War with the soviets as has been pointed out. The Western boarder expansion was spoils of War, the lost of the Kresy was a soviet illness. I would like to know the historical connection that Kaliningrad has to Russia, a spoil of war of Russia's, or should by your own thinking, they should pass it back now years have past? Taken land and stolen land due to the factors i mention is two very different things

[StefanM]

I for one still consider the Kresy stolen land, regardless of what emotions this brings up in what countries these areas are no within the boarders of. The only problem is that the shifting of the boarders is something that was soviet and some western powers made, the soviets drew a new map and the "some" western powers who couldn't care less didn't oppose it. Luckily many these areas were not completely ethnically cleared and many Polish still inhabit these lands.

As a previous post mentioned there are many Germans who would also like the borders to be shifted Eastwards again and I am sure someone, somewhere, is dreaming of a Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth solution also

Please let us not forget that Polish prime-minister Sikorski was entirely in favour of giving up the eastern lands in exchange for western German territories in a post-war settlement and peace with the USSR. In fact the final border outcome was almost entirely as Sikorski envisioned it would be although the federation of Eastern Europe did not come to fruition as Sikorski was hoping. Even Sikorski's closest advisor Jozef Retinger agreed Yalta was a fair solution for Poland (see Retinger's memoirs).... no wonder there was an assassination attempt on him also!

[StefanM]

Old maps are truly dangerous!

[Gary J]

All of these "Eastern European" territories have been in flux since the year dot.
There is no answer to the debate of "who owns the territory" .... Simply, when nations have the power to expand, the weaker regresses.
Land locked terra firma, will always be "tidal" when it comes to politics.

[Datrus]

Well written

Regards, Lars

[meyle77]

I don't think it is that simple. Based on that theory we should all be part of USA, China or Russia.

[Gary J]

Actually that's the classic example .... mirrored within the modern day climate.
Dependent on time periods, this statement could apply to ..

The Holy Roman Empire.
The Mongals.
Ancient Egypt.
The Ottoman Empire.
The Vikings.

.. All in their day, laid claim to land via political, military, financial Power ....

There is nothing new where the rise and fall of Empires are concerned.

Ad Infinitum ....

Gary J.

I don't think it is that simple. Based on that theory we should all be part of USA, China or Russia.

[meyle77]

Agree, but we are not dealing with empires but regular nation - Poland in 1939.
In 1939, Poland was a sovereign nation recognized by the rest of the world with borders.
The borders were redrawn in 1943, without consent of Poles.

Actually that's the classic example .... mirrored within the modern day climate.
Dependent on time periods, this statement could apply to ..

The Holy Roman Empire.
The Mongals.
Ancient Egypt.
The Ottoman Empire.
The Vikings.

.. All in their day, laid claim to land via political, military, financial Power ....

There is nothing new where the rise and fall of Empires are concerned.

Gary J.