Difference between AZ29 and WZ29 Rifles

[beachbumbob]

What is the difference between an AZ29 rifle and a WZ29 rifle? Have seen rifles labeled as such both with and without Polish Stacking Rods. I don't know anything about Polish Weaponry. This post is proof of that!

Thanks,

Bob

[dastier]

Bob it would help if you could post some pics. Are you talking about your rifle that you posted on Gunboards? Not sure what you mean by AZ29.

There was no stacking rod on the wz.29 rifles. Instead there were provisions for a cleaning rod and more robust bayonet attachment. The wz.98 has a stacking rod but no cleaning rod.

I'm not absolutely sure about early wz.29 rifles that were made from K98 mausers but the ones I've seen had the stacking rod removed and the cleaning rod/bayonet upgrade. These have K98 or K29 on the left side of the receiver. Perhaps in the transition some have the stacking rod still. But that's just speculation on my part.

[beachbumbob]

That's exactly the rifle I'm talking about Mike.

I just had someone correct me in a 3rd forum that it wasn't a WZ29.E but rather an AZ29. There is such a learning curve here that I'm afraid that my stupidity will be showing so badly that any restroom you go into it will be written on the walls that beachbumbob is an idiot!

Bob

[beachbumbob]

Here are a few pictures of the rifle we are talking about.

[dastier]

Sometimes collectors seem to use different labels for the same rifle leading to confusion. When I first saw your post in the Military Mausers forum on Gunboards.com, I originally thought your rifle to be a scrubbed Kbk wz.98 (K98) based on the stacking rod and K98 on the receiver. The Kbk wz.98 usually has a bent handle bolt in Polish service but this was a Polish export rifle to Spain so possibly all bets are off.

Cartoonist in the Military Mausers forum labeled it a Kbk wz.29e explaining his positioning to me in a PM that he considered it a Kbk wz.98 upgraded to wz.98/29 (wz.29 made from a K98 receiver) configuration then scrubbed and sold to Spain, making it a Kbk wz.29e. I believe his opinion is based on your rifle having matching serial numbers, including on the straight bolt handle which infantry versions of the KbK wz.29 in Polish service had. But as far as I am aware Kbk wz.29 in Polish service whether made from a K98 receiver or using a later receiver did not have the stacking rod. And scrubbed Kbk wz.29e's with WZ29 on the receiver I have seen are all designed for a cleaning rod and the bayonet lug is farther back.

I liked Marcus's explanation in the thread on Gunboards basing his opinion on the size of the receiver ring. Can you measure it? We also need more examples of scrubbed K98's with matching straight bolt handles as opposed to bent bolt handles to know if this was a variation of the K98 or a complete anomaly.

Also I have seen reference to a wz.29, a K29 and a wz.98/29 but I have not seen a AZ29 label. Can you explain how this was arrived? The kbk wz.98 was based upon the WW1 German Kar. 98AZ. It sounds whomever suggested AZ29 meant a wz.98 converted to a wz.98/29 and is using some different label. Or is this an accepted variation of some Polish rifle? Anyone care to comment? All opinions are welcome - its the only way we can learn.

[beachbumbob]

This question came about from a second forum where I posted pictures of the rifle. After Cartoonist ID'd it for me I added the ID to the picture. A member of the forum that I like and respect called it a AZ rather than WZ. He didn't offer any explation or anything else and didn't answer a PM I sent him. I figured that this forum dedicated to Polish weaponry might know if there was a difference in nomenclature due to language, political, historical or whatever difference that might cause this. Kind of like the SMLE Mark I and the Rifle #1 Mark I nomenclature. As you know a #1 MK I doesn't officially exist but rather it's what has developed over the years into an "accepted" (and I use the term loosely) term.

Based on the information kindly provided by you and those on GB, I feel that Marcus' explation is the most rational. It's going to be a rough couple of weeks for me workwise before I'm going to have time to get back to this but I'll find out the dimensions of the large and small ring Mausers and try to measure it to see what we come up with. I'm not familiar enough with the different Polish Mausers to offer up any kind of explation as to why or how it came to be in this configuration. I do believe this to be a product of a legitimate arsenal rebuild based on the quality of the work. The last one was Spanish by consenus and markings. But from the little that I know and what we've both been told which one of the sides in Spain is another question that will have to be pinned down. Again, one answer brings us to another set of questions.

This is why I love this hobby and why you never stop learning. I've got some more work ahead of me finding out what type of finish would have been used on the wood. The wood is a little dry and might benefit with a preservation. And on and on, the questions go.......