Home Army pictures!

**StefanM** · 01-02-2010, 09:05 PM

by Mariusz

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Hi Mariusz,

Posting some great pictures

Do you know if the top photo (103.jpg) is of Chrobry II Battalion?

**3mk** · 01-02-2010, 09:05 PM

Mariusz these are very nice,Ive never seen them before, are they original photos or are they from a book or something?

**3mk** · 01-02-2010, 09:07 PM

Can anyone post photos with pre-war Polish wz.36 uniforms in the Uprising, I know they were used alot by units that hid in forests but you dont see it much in Warsaw Uprising pictures

OKW · 01-02-2010, 09:54 PM

As someone pointed out this was the second Warsaw uprising, the first being the last occupants of the Jewish ghetto. Scant help they got at the time from their Polish neighbours!
A lot of the fighters appear to be wearing German uniforms, would this have been taken from prisoners, uniform workshops in the Warsaw area or were they in transit, Warsaw being a major rail junction for supplies to the eastern front. Hence Himmlers need to keep hold of the city, never mind the loss of face that the 'untermensch' were fighting and winning.
I have read the reasoning behind the rising, present a functioning government to the Red army and hence Stalin, when 'liberated'. However with hind sight would it have been better to have saved the energies expended and used them on the Red army. Someone posts that there was still anti soviet resistance until the 60's, presumably CIA backed. A murky page in history.
61 days was a long time for the Red army to sit on its bottom, even allowing for a river crossing, doing nothing, even to the extent of stopping Polish units in the Red army assisting the up-rising at gun point. Those in the photos were sold down the river.
A glorious episode in Polish history but the cost was high and played into the hands of the new enemy, and probably Polands allies, Churchill bears a measure of responsibility by 'giving' Poland to Stalin.

**StefanM** · 01-03-2010, 10:58 AM

Hi OKW,

I believe Marek Edelman once wrote that although he felt that Poles could have done more to help during the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising he also wrote that without prior Polish help the uprising would not have been possible.

There were many Poles (and earlier, Jews in the Warsaw ghetto) that worked in workshops making German uniforms.

Many Poles including Gen. Anders were totally opposed to any general uprising in Poland as it served no strategic military purpose and once initiated could not be practically supported by the allies given he did not believe the USSR would aid the general rising with the end result, a tremendous loss of civilian lives.

I realise that this may stir up a hornet's nest but I can't agree that Poland was given to Stalin by Churchill or Roosevelt; Stalin and the Red Army was the de facto power in Poland irrespective of Britain or the US as Stalin's Red Army and the Polish 1st/2nd Armies 'iberated' Poland from the Nazis. It must be remembered that the western Allies had not landed on Normandy whilst the communist armies had almost won the battle on the eastern front.

I do however agree that although Poland was not given to Stalin the western allies could have made more noise about wanting to see a democratic post war-Poland, but it would have just been that; 'noise', as there was nothing that could have been done without the western allies declaring war on the Soviets and that was never going to happen. And why should it as the Soviets had defeated the the Nazis on the Eastern front, and without the blood-sacrifice of the Red Army and Polish communist armies on the eastern front would the western Allies really have been able to land in Normandy? Would the Nazis really have been defeated in Poland without them? My view would be; no and no.

Like many, I wish the reality was different (that Red Army liberation was followed by Red Army occupation) then my father would have felt able to return to Warsaw after the war and his life (and mine) would have been Polish rather than English and he would have known that some of his family did survive the war. Sadly he died never knowing this.

by OKW

As someone pointed out this was the second Warsaw uprising, the first being the last occupants of the Jewish ghetto. Scant help they got at the time from their Polish neighbours!
A lot of the fighters appear to be wearing German uniforms, would this have been taken from prisoners, uniform workshops in the Warsaw area or were they in transit, Warsaw being a major rail junction for supplies to the eastern front. Hence Himmlers need to keep hold of the city, never mind the loss of face that the 'untermensch' were fighting and winning.
I have read the reasoning behind the rising, present a functioning government to the Red army and hence Stalin, when 'liberated'. However with hind sight would it have been better to have saved the energies expended and used them on the Red army. Someone posts that there was still anti soviet resistance until the 60's, presumably CIA backed. A murky page in history.
61 days was a long time for the Red army to sit on its bottom, even allowing for a river crossing, doing nothing, even to the extent of stopping Polish units in the Red army assisting the up-rising at gun point. Those in the photos were sold down the river.
A glorious episode in Polish history but the cost was high and played into the hands of the new enemy, and probably Polands allies, Churchill bears a measure of responsibility by 'giving' Poland to Stalin.

**mr dogtag** · 01-03-2010, 11:44 AM

I guess there is no sense of starting up this never ending disscussion of sense of Warsaw Uprising - any of both.
During the war nothing was so obvious and black & white as it seems now. Even when it comes to soviet support - one needs to remember about the susscessfull uprisings in Wilno and Lwow where the AK troops were supported by the Red Army and taken over the town from Germans. Obviously most of AK insurgents were arrested shortly after the battle ended end either needed to join LWP or ended in NKVD prisons. On the contrary in Warsaw many AK soldiers enlisted for the 1st and 2nd LWP Army and never suffered any repressions but there was no military support for the rising.
I suggest skiping speculations on sense of the rising. None of us have a crystal ball now and none of the ones deciding about the rising ever had one.
Whether id had any sense or not its participants deserve for respect for their sacrifice and bravery.
Al