National Party (Stronnictwo Narodowe, SN) uniforms?

[Gary J]

An Interesting thread, ...
Thanks to all concerned for posting information associated ......
.. But remembering, this is all part of a historical record.
During this time of mass upheaval, many diverse factions appeared in the majority European countries, ... IT IS PART OF HISTORY, and whatever the associations then, are purely an echo of the past.

Lets keep matters in historical perspective, and leave the political endtrails in the Gutter, where they belong !

With Respect to all ..

Gary J.

[Cenowski]

They are indeed a section of the Right in Polish Politics, the Polish Right is in no way Nazi, as obviously Nazi refers to a direct german group of the Reich. I think perspective has been lost in this thread as to how they are seen by Nations or Individuals around the world.I'm sure for bad press many would love to call them Nazi's especially those of the left so only facts will be able to speak for themselves.

The ONR were Polish Nationalist Catholics, they cared about Poland, The Polish people and Polishness, something that nearly every Polish person was fighting for throughout Polish history with exception of some minorities within the state. Certainly the connected NSZ who shed blood to fight for Poland should never be disrespected.

Carrying on the with the collection side of the thread, does anyone have any ONR stuff here or have any connection somehow?

[Krakow1]

With the utmost respect: I have accomplished my goal of having you explain sufficiently some of the things you have posted. As they were posted prior to your explanation they were suggesting that Polish people were fascist/nazi. (as seen in some of the comments left by members). i would never disagree with Prof emeritus Wandycz as we were born in the same city. One more point on the fascist/nazi question: maybe someone can sufficiently answer the question: why in all nazi occupied territories only in Poland there was a instant death penalty for the whole family for hiding a Jew?

[dastier]

Thanks to all that posted more information to help put the photographs and badges into context. It is a part of Polish history and I think its better to be informed than not.

[StefanM]

With the utmost respect: I have accomplished my goal of having you explain sufficiently some of the things you have posted. As they were posted prior to your explanation they were suggesting that Polish people were fascist/nazi. (as seen in some of the comments left by members). i would never disagree with Prof emeritus Wandycz as we were born in the same city.

It is my pleasure to have been of help

To conclude, as my friend Marek Chodakiewicz once wrote:

"We must remember that is the spirit of the times that essentially determines the ideology and actions of various political factions and movements."

One more point on the fascist/nazi question: maybe someone can sufficiently answer the question: why in all nazi occupied territories only in Poland there was a instant death penalty for the whole family for hiding a Jew?

To be historically correct there was no Poland at the time! This is the same confusion that has led to the oft quoted "Polish Concentration Camps" seen in the press and the various campaigns to correct this issue.

There was the same death penalty for hiding dollars as there had been for hiding Jews!

The death penalty was meted out to Poles for a whole number of reasons—Polish forced labourers could be hanged for having sex with a German, this was not the case for Western forced labourers—many other "infractions" that carried the death penalty can be found on printed red death notice posters.

[Krakow1]

Once again my friend You have not answered the question correctly. The question was once again:

Why in all nazi occupied territories (example for territories: France, Holland, etc) only in Poland there was an instant death penalty for the whole family for hiding a jew ?

That is the question, i am not asking why there was death penalty meted out to poles for other reasons, that is was not the question. And as i said maybe someone can sufficiently explain that.

[Cenowski]

I don't have any clue as to that answer as i wasn't even aware in the first place of only in occupied Poland there was death penalty for aiding jews. However on the subject yet another film is being released on the subject of aiding the jews, by Agnieszka Holland called W Ciemności.

W Ciemno

I havn't seen it yet as hits cinemas tonight in Poland and unfortunately i just returned from there and live in the UK. What does everyone thinks about this gerne of films that seem to keep popping up, Schindler's List, Pianist, this one and so on?

[StefanM]

Once again my friend You have not answered the question correctly. The question was once again:

Why in all nazi occupied territories (example for territories: France, Holland, etc) only in Poland there was an instant death penalty for the whole family for hiding a jew ?

That is the question, i am not asking why there was death penalty meted out to poles for other reasons, that is was not the question. And as i said maybe someone can sufficiently explain that.

Forgive me but you are still making a mistake in referring to Poland a country which did not exist at the time.

The point I was trying to make was that Poles being put to death by the Nazis was not an exceptional or out of the ordinary occurrence whether it was for hiding Jews or hoarding US dollars they were executed. However if you need more, I am happy to oblige once more

See the book Harvest of despair: life and death in Ukraine under Nazi rule
By Karel Cornelis Berkhoff


".....Because of anti-Semitism, the culture of denunciation, and the virtual certainty of the death penalty if one were caught hiding a Jew, the people who saved or tried to save Jews probably constituted a small minority. The wish not to put one's life and that of family members on the line needs great emphasis. It is instructive to point out that in the "Germanic" Netherlands, the people who helped Anne Frank hide were not even arrested. By contrast, in the Reichskommissariat Ukraine the Nazis would and did kill not only the "guilty ones," but also their children."

So it seems this collective punishment was also applied to Ukrainian families as well as Poles.

To me the author makes an interesting point in that the racially superior "Germanic" Dutch (and by inference the Western Europeans in general) did not receive any draconian punishment for aiding Anne Frank (and presumably not for assisting other Jews as well) which leads one to speculate towards a conclusion that collective punishment was only for the Slavs such as Poles and Ukranians because they were classed as sub-humans by the Nazis and different rules were applied according to racial hierarchy in Nazi policy.

Is this the answer you were looking for by way of a possible explanation

But I think this has all moved far away from the purpose of a militaria collecting forum... it is not polishforums.com, which I was pleased to leave behind.

[Cenowski]

Forgive me but you are still making a mistake in referring to Poland a country which did not exist at the time.

I have not heard of Poland not existing at all at this time, an occupied Poland does not mean it doesn't exist at all.....

which leads one to speculate towards a conclusion that collective punishment was only for the Slavs such as Poles and Ukranians because they were classed as sub-humans by the Nazis and different rules were applied according to racial hierarchy in Nazi policy.

I think this is highly likely as to the reason as for the extreme dislike shown to the Slavs who did not collaborate with the germans. Also the treatment of Slaivc prisoners of War compared to the western Europeans prisoners of War such as the British, French, Scandinavians, etc.

[StefanM]

I have not heard of Poland not existing at all at this time, an occupied Poland does not mean it doesn't exist at all......

That is because you are not looking at this from the German perspective which is the correct perspective when considering particular issues of German policies in former Polish territories during WWII. For the Germans the territories that were Poland before WWII became; Reichsgau Danzig - Westpreußen, Reichsgau Wartheland and the Generalgouvernement, with later addition of (parts of) Reichskommissariat, Ukraine, Reichskommissariat Ostland and Eastern Galicia which was transferred to the control of the General Government. That is why there were no concentration camps built in Poland during WWII... Poland did not exist.