Polish 1st Armoured Division Patch Cotton - Genuine..??

[kindzjal]

Any opinions on those two:

[kindzjal]

[Lukasz78]

for me #12 patch looks fine.The same was sold on James & Sons auction in 2015
WWII Polish 1st armoured division Arm patch

[A.J. Zawadzki]

Hi guys,

The first one posted may be OK, although the photo is weak. I prefer to see the tan colour cheesecloth type backing fabric on these. An in-hand inspection is necessary to be certain with this one.

The second one (with the auction link to past sale) is a reproduction.

Regards,
Tony

[Lukasz78]

I always rely on Your opinions Tony, and in this case i will not argue with You.
I thought, that if the auction house is selling, that is original, but is not.
I never saw the reproduction like this one, but maybe is an old one.
I saw the modern reproduction which are quite similar but not the same, and i thought that it was a reproduction of the one we are talking about.
Sorry for my english but i'm do my best :-)

[A.J. Zawadzki]

Hi Lukasz,

Your English is excellent, no problem at all understanding.

. . . I thought, that if the auction house is selling, that is original, but is not. . . .

If only auction houses could be relied on to sell only authentic items! The people employed by auction houses are not experts in every area, and the rule of ‘buyer beware’ absolutely remains in effect in an auction house setting. The same with museum staff. If there’s one thing I’ve come to appreciate is that knowledge truly resides with those that are passionate about a specific topic. And there’s no one more passionate than us collectors.

A true story to share with you: Ten years ago one of my purchases on allegro was seized by the Polish authorities for being on their list of banned exports. The package contained some pre-WW2 uniform buttons among other common items. The person who posted the package was charged with breaking the exportation laws and summoned to court to defend himself against the state. It turned out that the penalties could be quite serious for violation of this law. On the day of his trial he found that the prosecution had three “experts” present from the Polish Army Museum in Warsaw. He opted not to hire legal counsel and to defend himself, and on realization of his opposition he admitted that he broke out in a sweat. In the opening moments of the proceedings the discussion centered around authenticating genuine buttons from reproductions. In short order the defendant had the museum people twisted in a pretzel and contradicting themselves. The judge tossed out the charges and returned the items to his possession. The defendant was left scratching his head at what had just happened.

I always rely on Your opinions Tony, and in this case i will not argue with You. . . .

Thank you for the compliment, but I remain merely a student. My opinions are not the final verdict by any stretch. Question everything and everyone!

With these patches, many have passed through my hands, both on uniforms and loose. There was one primary type produced during wartime for all ranks along with privately purchase higher grade officer versions. Numerous examples are posted over various threads on this forum. Here’s the wartime production version. It’s a web grab as I am away from home at the moment:



and on uniform:



Private purchase officer version:



Some copies employ stitching very faithful to the wartime produced examples. The black paperbacked ones are alleged to be early post-war UK production for veterans, part of a series of PSZ insignia sold via vets associations and other retailers (i.e. POSK).

Recent copies are immediately identified by the machine stitched pattern most readily visible in the orange circle. Such is the case with the second example posted above, and this one:



Regards,
Tony

[ze-pole]

Hello,
All is said by Tony : If only auction houses could be relied on to sell only authentic items !
In France, I saw polish items proposed in "famous" auctions... They were partially copies.
Ze-Pole